Rhode Island Adult Videogame Bill

[Kugyince]

A Rhode Island Bill that proposes fines and possible jail time for retail employees that sell Mature(M) or Adults Only (AO) rated games to underage consumers has drawn backing from the Parents Television Council (PTC).

S.2156 PDF proposes to label it a misdemeanor to sell “M” rated games to anyone less than seventeen years or “AO” rated games to someone less than eighteen years of age. Fines of up to $1,000 and jail time of “not more” than one year are the bill’s proposed penalties. The bill is sponsored by State Senators Frank Ciccone (D), Paul Jabour (D), Beatrice Lanzi (D) and Michael McCaffrey (D).

RI Adult Videogame Bill Draws Kudos from PTC | GamePolitics

[Demon-Mask]

No matter how you look at it, this is an unnecessary law that will be hard to enforce.

[Mareeps]

I understand fining them for selling to minors under 17, but jail time is a bit harsh. I say just leave it at the fine.

[Demon-Mask]

Originally Posted by brawlmaster12344

I understand fining them for selling to minors under 17, but jail time is a bit harsh. I say just leave it at the fine.

Either way, the fine seems a little harsh for the offense, the fine should be no more than $500, and that's going a little high.

[Kugyince]

I like the law. We all complain that parents need to better monitor what types of materials their children are viewing. Any law that assists this I'm all for.

[Slime Slayer]

Originally Posted by Tenser

I like the law, I'm an adult.

fixed

[Kugyince]

At least that makes one of us.

[Slime Slayer]

But it is true, adults will approve minors will not.

[fungusman]

This has nothing to do with minors getting the games, it's just an excuse to federalize something that is naive of much legislature. Just like all the internet control stuff that is happening as well. More nanny state garbage.

Of course the jail time is harsh, that's why prison owners lobby government so much. They want everyone in there. Most of the people that own the prisons own the hotels and restaurants close to the prisons as well (visiting families need to eat/sleep). They make lots of money.

[Kugyince]

This has nothing to do with minors getting games?

[Dudebro]

This is not a fair law. Video game ratings are not law, they are suggestions made by the ESRB so people know what contents are in a game. The ESRB was made about 16 years ago. In that time we have had no other laws(that I know of), why did it take so long if this is such a great idea?

Originally Posted by Wiki link

In the US, ESRB ratings are not legally binding, but many retailers take it upon themselves to refuse the sale of these games to minors.

So this law is being put in place to enforce store policies? If our government doesn't think it's worthy of being a law then why should Rhode Island be allowed to make up it's own joke of a law? Maybe parents should take some personal responsibility instead of putting the burden on some retail employee who probably wasn't even trained or was given a fake id. What happens if some kid has a friend buy a mature game for him? Are we going to throw the other kid in jail for a year or fine him 500$? We don't arrest employees of movie theaters for letting kids into R rated movies right?

Originally Posted by tenser

We all complain that parents need to better monitor what types of materials their children are viewing. Any law that assists this I'm all for.

So you're in favor of a law that removes some parental responsibility because it makes their lives easier? What if a parent doesn't agree with the ESRB suggestions, do we get them in legal trouble too? It is not the stores job to keep tabs on your kids.

Originally Posted by steven

But it is true, adults will approve minors will not.

You're wrong.


If this was happening in the UK I'd have no problem with it since it is legally binding. This is probably just some attention whoring by some idiot politician in Rhode Island. If anyone lives in the area they know Rhode Island isn't known for anything good besides only taking about an hour to drive through.


[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board[/ame]

[RU Joe]

This has got to be stopped before it goes any further.

Lest we forget:
'First they came for the ____ people, and I said nothing.
then they came for the ____ people, and I said nothing.
and then they came for ME.'
{in case you don't understand - at that point there was no one left to speak for me, since all of them had already been taken away while I said nothing about it}

If we don't defend each others' Freedom of Speech {and artistic expression, as it applies here} while we still can, they will be coming for US.

This Rhode Island Videogame Bill is way too similar to the Parents Music Resource Center {PMRC} panel that tried to harshly and unfairly censor music back in 1984.
Thankfully, Twisted Sister front man Dee Snider was there to shut those bureaucrats down before their monster got a chance to grow.
If you're a fan of Metal or Rap, you really should thank Dee for this.

The point I'm trying to make is that if the PMRC was successful, you might very well be living in the 1957 - esque World which they seem to want to impose on us through the application of 1984 - esque tactics.

Every victory for these bureaucrats is a loss for Freedom of Speech and Civil Liberties as well, since these Bills they try to pass are always a shoe horn for something far bigger.

My guess is that if they get public support for videogame censorship, they will probably then try to outlaw and criminalize those games they consider to be violent influences.

At the same time, they will do nothing about the real World situations which inspired those games in the first place, and in some cases will even speak in support of the real life inspirations.
The release of S.O.C.O.M., and Military Recruitment Officers in the schools back in the '90's comes to mind.... and that was around the time the Iraq War was starting too....
...but no one has a problem with that being an influence, apparently.

Popular TV shows involve two hulking men pounding each other's face in,
but no one has a problem with that being an influence

The 'news' shows us all kinds of horrors from around the World,
but no one has a problem with that being an influence

but,
a kid plays Mortal Kombat... or Grand Theft Auto...
and all of a sudden there's a Bill to take Civil Liberties away and put people in jail and fine them.

This is just as wrong as the $1000 {Euro} fine for putting your garbage bin out on the wrong day in the UK.

Finally, speaking of influence on youth, I would like to refer you to my post where I talked about playing with toy guns for years as a kid, and its lack of influence on me criminally speaking.
It's the reality of the World at Large that's making kids violent, not video games which reflect that reality, and the Church Ladies of the World need to realize that 1957 is gone and never coming back, even if they do vote for 1984.

[Slime Slayer]

Bah! cant read that

[Dudebro]

Originally Posted by JG

My guess is that if they get public support for videogame censorship, they will probably then try to outlaw and criminalize those games they consider to be violent influences.

Yeah like Australia and Germany where people have to get games like GTA on the blackmarket and risk legal trouble for possession.

[Kugyince]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

So you're in favor of a law that removes some parental responsibility because it makes their lives easier? What if a parent doesn't agree with the ESRB suggestions, do we get them in legal trouble too? It is not the stores job to keep tabs on your kids.

You're overreacting. The law does not say a parent can not buy their child an M rated game. I don't see how this removes parental responsability, if anything it ensure that little Johnny can't just walk into Gamestop on his way home and grab GTA. He's going to have to ask his mom and pop to buy it for him.

[Slime Slayer]

yeah but he'll buy mario and walk away with his promotianal halo 4 hat.

[Dudebro]

Originally Posted by Tenser

You're overreacting. The law does not say a parent can not buy their child an M rated game. I don't see how this removes parental responsability, if anything it ensure that little Johnny can't just walk into Gamestop on his way home and grab GTA. He's going to have to ask his mom and pop to buy it for him.

It removes the part where a parent should be aware of what the kid is playing if they care so much about this.

Porn is age restricted by law and punishing store employees is appropriate. Game ratings are not legally binding, punishing an employee in this situation is the overreaction. You don't see that?

[Kong]

@DB, Good point that the ratings are not official. They are made by non-goverment agencies with their own agendas. What kind of games does this affect? Mortal Kombat? COD? Surgeon Games? Religious games?
IMO any game that glorifies war is way worse than any game where you can walk around decapitating zombies and having sex with hookers. Although I doubt the law sees it that way.

I think COD should be off limits but Mortal Kombat is OK. I bet it is the opposite.

Left Behind games - your mission, kill and convert atheists, jews and musslims because they are non-christians. Should kids be allowed to play this? It is rated T so I guess so.

I imagine there are some games now where your job is to kill Arabs. I bet they are rated T too.

I think teaching kids to kill people for their beliefs or birthplace is more inceidious and does more harm than playing a game where they steal cars. The later is more obviously fantasy and role playing. This is not how the people making the ratings see it.

I think Surgeon games are as bad as GTA. If a kid doesn't have enough common sense to not car jack in real life then how does he have enough common sense to not cut open his little sister up.

The penalties for selling minors nicotine or alcohol are very high. I think that is a very good law. But I don't think violence and sex are exactly the same as addictive drugs or even close.

They should also make it illegal to advertise this stuff to minors. Of course lots of kids want to get drunk, smoke, have sex, be violent and cuss. That is what we tell them they should want to do and what we tell them adults do and what we tell them they are forbidden to do. And we are surprised that we can't figure out how to keep them from doing it.

What is stopping the kid from driving across the border and buying it from the next state over. It can't take that long to drive across Rhode Island.

The employee should be completely off the hook if the kid has a fake ID.

When I say it is the parents responsibility I mean it is their responsibility to make sure the kid is mature enough to understand the difference in make believe and killing someone in real life. Not their responsibility to police the games they play.

This law will make parents feel like they don't have to do that because someone else is taking care of it for them. Their kids are someone else's problem and they can spend more time being a bad influence for their kids.

[Tails]

I think of it as the same kinda thing as Cigarettes/Beer. Parents should monitor that and we have to ID people for that too. So why not games?

[Dudebro]

That's the point, most places do card people for games. We all know that sometimes kids are allowed to buy them but that's on each store to enforce it's policies since it's not breaking the law. If an employee sold cigarettes or a pellet gun to a minor they can get in legal trouble because it's actually against the law.

Either way I don't think there's any evidence showing kids getting games on their own. From my experiences places like gamestop do card because the employee doesn't want to lose his job. It's the parents buying games like MW2 and GTA for their kids. I'm willing to bet that most parents barely care about the ratings because to them it's just a game.

[fungusman]

Originally Posted by Tenser

This has nothing to do with minors getting games?

The intent is much different. Like I said, this benefits corporate america. It'll be abused on a few if not many different levels.

Jailtime is always a plus for the prison owners.

Another great weapon against the little guy would be to set up an indy gamestore who is directly competing against a walmart by selling and trading in used games. Right now they hate that. A federal agent sends in his kid, buys a game, claims he wasn't carded etc, shut down the store over mass violation etc.

Will they bring this into the cyber realm ? Of course, it's a covert way to interject federal violations on some pesky file sharers. WELL THINK OF THE KIDS. So it would seem on the surface, but intent is skin deep.

Have a look at the marijuana laws in the US. You get caught with a gram in some states and you get locked up for 7+ years. It's just ridiculous, there is no point to this bill besides creating more legislation that will create a few more government jobs and further expand the nanny state.

How man kids have already been exposed to these types of games? 1% of 1 million is 1000. 1000 is arguably an over statement of how many cases we see daily of the NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF MATURE VIDEOGAMES.

I'm pretty sure we can list all the videogame related tragedies/crimes from memory. There is about maybe 40 if we all googled for the next hour or so. How many people bought Modern Warfare 2 ? 22 million or something insane like that. This bill is a joke.

[Kugyince]

You're a bit of a conspiracy nut, aren't you?

[Slime Slayer]

I agree with part of that, the part where "think of the children" is not the driving force behind this.

[jim5cents]

indeed, it is the politicians thinking of "think of the politicians at the polls"

[fungusman]

Originally Posted by Tenser

You're a bit of a conspiracy nut, aren't you?

Not quite. I'd sooner say anyone who believes video games will amass a demon squad of corrupt children, inspired by videogames to overthrow society, is a conspiracy nut. 30,000 people are laid off a day in the USA with no sort of protest or call for political reform. Do people really think kratos or duke nukem will turn a lazy retard public into some Ghandi led calculated political vigilante movement? Barely, lol.

Arrest the evil videogame pirate mafia cartel. How dare they sell "Turok Dinosaur Hunter" to 12 year old Jimmy.