Avatar. (good or bad)

**mario90s** · 01-15-2010, 01:47 PM

I think it the best movie ever! And I'm not saying that because of the CG. No, I mean everything is good about it.

Now, I understand that some or most of you, rather prefer the old 80's movies, where there were just anamatronics and props, well I like those movies too, but this movie is quite entertaining like James Cameron's other films, if you like his movies.

Do you like or not?

**samejamesbond** · 01-15-2010, 01:51 PM

Easily one of the greatest films I have ever seen.

**ZedIsDead** · 01-15-2010, 02:16 PM

Honestly, all the advertising turned me off. I doubt I'll see it anytime soon.

**joz** · 01-15-2010, 02:17 PM

That movie blew me away! It had a great story and lots of detail. The 3-D was awsome. The message about being at one with nature and to respect the land we live on is something we should all learn to do. The Vatican didn't like the movie too much though.

**RU Joe** · 01-15-2010, 02:22 PM

I haven't seen it yet, but when people talk about having to buy their tickets hours and sometimes days in advance to see the regular version,
THEN
you hear that the IMAX version is booked solid for weeks, you know we must be talking about something really special.

The last time a movie made such an impact...
(sound of scuba tank valve)
I remember lining up for at least a couple of hours to see Star Wars as a kid, and remember that was way back in 1977 so for there to be any line up at all really meant something.

Apparently there is an underlying social comment in Avatar about corporate conquest for natural resources and their treatment of nations they steal from, only stated using aliens instead of Humans.
I like when movies make a social comment, like Aeon Flux.
(another great show)

Ninjatiamat:
I always wait for a movie to come out on DVD.
I quit going to theatres years ago, and since they run ads during your movie that you pay nearly $20 to get in now...

And Jozman3000:
I think you're right.

**JKool** · 01-15-2010, 02:46 PM

I thought it was a good movie. It was a bit predictable but still good entertainment.

**Kong** · 01-15-2010, 02:53 PM

I hadn't heard of it until a couple days ago when my roommate said he was going to go see it. He saw the IMAX version and said it sucked. He said it was visually stunning but everything else was horribly bad.

**samejamesbond** · 01-15-2010, 02:56 PM

I found the film to be very well done, the plot is just like Dances with Wolves
and I don't see anything to hate about it.

**joz** · 01-15-2010, 03:01 PM

@ Kong - I recommend you watch it in 3-D and see for yourself if it's good or not.

**Winnebagel** · 01-15-2010, 03:10 PM

I hated it with such passion it's almost palpable.

To be fair, it was visually impressive. The CGI was about the best I have ever seen, but the 3-D effects were not very impressive compared to a lot of things released in recent years (i.e. My Bloody Valentine, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Final Destination, and even Meet the Robinsons all used the 3-D to greater effect.)

Visuals aside, the story was atrocious. Cameron didn't even hide the fact that he stole nearly every scene from either Dances With Wolves or Disney's Pocahontas

( Click to show/hide )

Further, the characters in the movie were such 2-D cardboard cut-outs it was almost funny. Every character was either all good or all bad.

( Click to show/hide )

The only thing missing were the black or white cowboy hats. Maybe Cameron made the film in 3-D to make up for the 2-D characters.

I thought Cameron's usually excellent direction was lacking too.
The pacing of the film was plodding. I think the movie was way too long. I enjoyed the first 60-70 minutes, but after that the pacing just spiraled downward. I think he spent way too much time showing Jake

( Click to show/hide )

In addition, I thought the battle scenes were not dramatic at all, and there were too few for something touted as a big spectacle movie. I have a huge attention span for movies that many people consider boring (I still count 2001, Lawrence of Arabia, Shindler's List, Bridge on the River Kwai, and the Lord of the Ring films. <--- All long movies.), but I was bored to tears not even halfway through.

I know the movie has made a ridiculous amount of money, but my respect for Cameron as a writer really went down with this one. Prior to Avatar, I would have defended James Cameron as a great writer of gray and conflicted characters, but after this, I won't defend him anymore. When watching this and then watching movies by real directors like David Cronenberg, I don't think there is any competition when it comes to storytelling. Heck, even George Lucas managed to make Anakin Skywalker a more conflicted character in the Star Wars prequels than anyone in Avatar.

In case I wasn't clear, I loathed Avatar. Not counting the billion and 1/2 $ it has currently made, it is still the most over rated movie of 2009.

**JKool** · 01-15-2010, 03:38 PM

Winebagel the movie wasn't that over rated. The movie critics said it had a stupid storyline but good action scences. Which is what the movie had.

**joz** · 01-15-2010, 03:41 PM

Well I rate it pretty good.

**samejamesbond** · 01-15-2010, 03:52 PM

I'm going to watch it a second time later today.

**mario90s** · 01-15-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnebagel

I hated it with such passion it's almost palpable.

To be fair, it was visually impressive. The CGI was about the best I have ever seen, but the 3-D effects were not very impressive compared to a lot of things released in recent years (i.e. My Bloody Valentine, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Final Destination, and even Meet the Robinsons all used the 3-D to greater effect.)

Visuals aside, the story was atrocious. Cameron didn't even hide the fact that he stole nearly every scene from either Dances With Wolves or Disney's Pocahontas

( Click to show/hide )

Further, the characters in the movie were such 2-D cardboard cut-outs it was almost funny. Every character was either all good or all bad.

( Click to show/hide )

The only thing missing were the black or white cowboy hats. Maybe Cameron made the film in 3-D to make up for the 2-D characters.

I thought Cameron's usually excellent direction was lacking too.
The pacing of the film was plodding. I think the movie was way too long. I enjoyed the first 60-70 minutes, but after that the pacing just spiraled downward. I think he spent way too much time showing Jake

( Click to show/hide )

In addition, I thought the battle scenes were not dramatic at all, and there were too few for something touted as a big spectacle movie. I have a huge attention span for movies that many people consider boring (I still count 2001, Lawrence of Arabia, Shindler's List, Bridge on the River Kwai, and the Lord of the Ring films. <--- All long movies.), but I was bored to tears not even halfway through.

I know the movie has made a ridiculous amount of money, but my respect for Cameron as a writer really went down with this one. Prior to Avatar, I would have defended James Cameron as a great writer of gray and conflicted characters, but after this, I won't defend him anymore. When watching this and then watching movies by real directors like David Cronenberg, I don't think there is any competition when it comes to storytelling. Heck, even George Lucas managed to make Anakin Skywalker a more conflicted character in the Star Wars prequels than anyone in Avatar.

In case I wasn't clear, I loathed Avatar. Not counting the billion and 1/2 $ it has currently made, it is still the most over rated movie of 2009.

Well, if you read Wikipedia, you'll probably know, that the first actual draft or treatment of Avatar was made in 1994, and Pochahantas was released after the treatment was made.
Also, have you ever heard of the prhase, "Take an old idea and make it new?" Thats what James did. He took some old ideas and made them new, but if I'm not making sense, check out what James Rolfe (The Angry Video Game Nerd) says, Alien Invaders And Their Sequels (all three parts) | Cinemassacre Productions listen to Earth vs the flying saucers review.

**RU Joe** · 01-15-2010, 04:24 PM

WB:
What did you think about Star Wars, from a first - time seeing it perspective?
The reason I ask is because the response to Avatar seems to be largely positive, with you being a strong exception.
By hearing what you thought of Star Wars I may understand your point of view better.
OR,

Do we have another 'Blair Witch Hunt' (the Fresh Witch of Bel Air)
mega - hype over basically nothing? (her nose is running?)

Remember how people went nuts over that?
(the sequel was better)

and Mario90s:
AVGN is awesome.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

**Winnebagel** · 01-15-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yasly

Winebagel the movie wasn't that over rated. The movie critics said it had a stupid storyline but good action scences. Which is what the movie had.

I don't really care what movie critics say since they are just people. I think the story and action scenes were bad.

I can respect others opinions on this, but I thought it was a drawn out pathetic excuse for a movie that really didn't succeed in any area other than the special effects.

The sad thing is I agree with a lot of the message, but the way it was done was so obvious and nonallegorical that it failed as a story (to me). There was no subtelty whatsoever, and it was so over the top and preachy it felt like Sunday School for tree huggers.

I know this isn't an indicator, but the only people who clapped or cheered in the full theatre were three 50ish women who were literally jumping up and down screaming for something like 15 minutes after the movie's end. It looked like a spiritual experience to me, or maybe they had just never watched Enviroporn before.

---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeGrotowski

WB:
What did you think about Star Wars, from a first - time seeing it perspective?
The reason I ask is because the response to Avatar seems to be largely positive, with you being a strong exception.
By hearing what you thought of Star Wars I may understand your point of view better.
OR,

Do we have another 'Blair Witch Hunt' (the Fresh Witch of Bel Air)
mega - hype over basically nothing? (her nose is running?)

Remember how people went nuts over that?
(the sequel was better)

and Mario90s:
AVGN is awesome.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

When I first saw Star Wars I was blown away. The first one I saw was Empire and it was just astounding not just because of fancy visuals, but because there was a rich mythology and characters you could care about.
Lucas did not just completely rip off the plot of another (aspects perhaps) but not a complete scene for scene rip off. He still had original characters, new made up alien languages, and a distinct plot. James Cameron he even had the aliens speaking Native American languages on another planet, and the plot was almost an exact rip of Dances With Wolves (which is a much better film).

Joe to me good science fiction should be more symbolic than actually coming out and making the story so obvious that a wee bairn could understand. That's why I prefer things like Star Wars, Str Trek, Blade Runner, Dune, Equilibrium, and even Back to the Future (though it's largely
comedic) that have points, but points that they don't have to cudgel you over the head with Like the proverbial seal to make you understand.

I just found Avatar to be really lazy.

**RU Joe** · 01-15-2010, 08:54 PM

Re: Star Wars
Thanks, WB.
You seem like you know your entertainment quite well and now I have a more clear picture of what Avatar is really about.
Dances with Wolves?

Seriously, that movie with the guy up in Alaska that ends up eating mice?
And Native American accents?
Maybe I'll just skip Avatar and find Forbidden Planet on DVD instead.
(now there's a good show)

**Demon-Mask** · 01-15-2010, 08:58 PM

I haven't seen it yet, as I haven't the money to spent $10 to see a move a single time, mabye I'll buy it on DVD when it comes out.

**Winnebagel** · 01-15-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeGrotowski

Re: Star Wars
Thanks, WB.
You seem like you know your entertainment quite well and now I have a more clear picture of what Avatar is really about.
Dances with Wolves?

Seriously, that movie with the guy up in Alaska that ends up eating mice? And Native American accents?

That one was Never Cry Wolf. Dances With Wolves was the one with Kevin Costner where he was a U.S. Civil War soldier that ends up with him meeting and integrating into the Native American culture. The movie is pretty good, but the remake not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrowtowski

Maybe I'll just skip Avatar and find Forbidden Planet on DVD instead.
(now there's a good show)

Yeah, that's a good one. One of Leslie Nielsen's earlier classics.

**Dudebro** · 01-16-2010, 03:37 AM

@WB- Wow I'm surprised you feel this strongly against Avatar. I thought it was a good movie but I wasn't expecting much besides visuals. The story is rehashed and predictable but that's not anything new in Hollywood. I think Cameron was just trying to appeal to the largest possible audience, and it worked. Maybe you're being too critical of it because of hyped it was.

I suggest everyone see it if they got the extra money. It may not be anything new(besides the awesome visuals) but it's certainly worth seeing.

**Tails** · 01-16-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjatiamat

Honestly, all the advertising turned me off. I doubt I'll see it anytime soon.

Same, Dark Knight did the same thing I hated that, so not gonna waste my time.

**Calavera** · 01-16-2010, 09:09 PM

It's like Pocahontas, with CG.

**Dudebro** · 01-16-2010, 09:29 PM

I don't understand why advertising hype would make someone not watch a movie they might end up liking. How can you know until you see it?

Btw I just remembered that WB liked GI Joe. Now I'm not so shocked that he hated Avatar

**Kong** · 01-16-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudebro

I don't understand why advertising hype would make someone not watch a movie they might end up liking.

I feel the same. I've always been a fan of the underdog. Long live Sega!

When I heard that the #1 grossing movie was still Titanic and that this movie was going to beat Titanic and it was made by the same guy, I was instantly turned off. Just the way I am.

**Dudebro** · 01-16-2010, 09:44 PM

I think you misunderstood my quote Kong. If you felt the same as me you wouldn't let hype factor into your decision, or am I misunderstanding you?