Call of Duty: Modern Warfare has gone too far, no joke.

**RU Joe** · 11-25-2009, 08:22 AM

This is scary.
I'm not sure what else to say about it, so see it for yourself:

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com Call of Duty Has Gone Too Far: How Our Children Are Being Programed Right Before Our Very Eyes

**TrakMastaTom** · 11-25-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Propaganda is truly everywhere you look.

How ironic...

**Dudebro** · 11-26-2009, 01:13 AM

Nope, no biggie. It's a mature rated game. If parents let their kids play a mature rated military game it's on them.

Btw why the sudden outrage about killing innocent people? I used to drive down the sidewalk in GTA and just plow through citizens when I was bored. At least the level from MW2 goes with the plot and you don't actually have to kill them if you don't want.
If this was a movie there would be no outrage.

**RU Joe** · 11-26-2009, 02:54 AM

TrakMastaTom:

Quote:

How ironic...

So what do you mean by that?
Please cast a vote in the poll.

DB:

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Nope, no biggie

I appreciate you saying so but please vote as well.

Quote:

Btw why the sudden outrage about killing innocent people? I used to drive down the sidewalk in GTA and just plow through citizens when I was bored.

Yeah, me too.
In GTA Vice City I would hole up in the spiral building and see how many 'wanted' stars I could get.
Never could get that sucker above 3, though.

The issue at hand is the message that is being implanted in the mind of the player:
Self sacrifice and also sacrifice of the innocent citizenry may be necessary to thwart a terrorist threat.

Let's be realistic here:
The US military has openly admitted that certain well-known video game titles in the FPS squad-based genre (S"O*C*O*M) have been paid recruitment advertisements at their core, and they have even gone so far as to thank the game companies for their cooperation at game conventions shows.

So if this new COD: MW is another such paid-for by the military recruitment campaigns, then we can only conclude that they may have a need for kamikaze-style warriors who are willing to sacrifice not only themselves, but also anyone else in order to fulfill their given orders.

The reason why I say that is how they point out in the article that multiple game testers reported that there is no possible way to keep from being killed by the terrorists whom you have been ordered to aid.
Every single time your cover gets blown (after you help the terrorists shoot every man, woman, and child) and they kill you.

Help me to understand this, because I have played some very dark-themed games like Manhunt,
and Resident Evil and Silent Hill but this....

**Dudebro** · 11-26-2009, 11:08 AM

I'm in a rush so I can't answer in detail but I wanted to comment on a couple things.

Quote:

I appreciate you saying so but please vote as well.

I did vote, no biggie.

Quote:

Yeah, me too.
In GTA Vice City I would hole up in the spiral building and see how many 'wanted' stars I could get.
Never could get that sucker above 3, though.

Man you aren't very good at GTA. I used to get max stars and see how long I could survive all the time. I got so good at dodging the cops that it got boring after a while.

**Tails** · 11-26-2009, 11:45 AM

Try that IRL Dood. :P

**Slime Slayer** · 11-26-2009, 01:38 PM

i normally would think this wouldnt be an issue, but with the amount of games of this nature being pumped out, and the amount of people playing for such extended periods of time. i would say for sure that in at least a few cases people have enlisted beause of the glorification of war.
this is different than suggesting too much gta makes you go on a killing spree so dont bother with that one db.

**Timber Wolf** · 11-26-2009, 04:56 PM

glorification of war is natural, it's been going on every other generation for the longest time, some societies of the past built themselves on glorification of war, not to mention how one interprets things plays a huge part of the argument and can be used against it too. I don't think there is any brainwashing or instilling of thoughts or ideas, in no way is it stepping over any boundary. And besides, more of this kind of stuff goes on than we know, or care to(the whole sacrificing "innocent people", or matters such as the one depicted). I'm in a hurry, so I'll finish the thought later, and go ahead and pick at it as is if you want

**Kong** · 11-26-2009, 09:32 PM

I didn't read all of this.

I think glorifying war is different than glorifying car jacking. I think the average kid can play GTA and realize that it doesn't have much to do with real life. It is an obvious joke. War propaganda is not an obvious joke and has a better chance of tricking people. It is how all advertisements work. Bend the truth until it looks appealing.

**Dudebro** · 11-27-2009, 01:24 AM

Yeah maybe the small minority of highly impressionable people are influenced by this game but the rest of the mature adults can handle it. Non issue.

**jim5cents** · 11-27-2009, 10:38 AM

1. i applaud infinity ward for the direction they have taken. they market the game as being modern warfare. lets face it, terrorism and the war on terror are indeed very modern themes. terror attacks have been the catalyst for armed conflict thus far in the millienium. also recognize that killing civilians in the game (with the exception of the no russian level) carries a penalty in the game. furthermore, the no russian level itself is a very important story arc in the game.

2. using video games as a training tool is a very important tool. it helps limit the number of training accidents. military deaths per year in iraq and afganistan number around 1600 deaths. during the 1980's, before the use of simulators and miles gear, training deaths in the us military numbered 2100 per year

snopes.com: Military Losses, 1980 through 2006
note, while the article is states false, it is specific about the number of deaths during the clinton vs. h.w. bush adminstation. the number of deaths during reagan's admin is much higher.
these numbers are also confirmed by the Defence Manpower Data Center for the DoD.

3. COD:MW2 is FICTION!!!

**Slime Slayer** · 11-27-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

1. i applaud infinity ward for the direction they have taken. they market the game as being modern warfare. lets face it, terrorism and the war on terror are indeed very modern themes.

and how appropriate do you think it is, to translate an astronomical amount of death and heartache, into an "fun" game, for those who arnt effected to lounge around a play?

**jim5cents** · 11-27-2009, 03:09 PM

i wasn't referencing the "fun" factor. i've played the level once and that was enough for me. as to how much fun the no russian level is, i would relate it to watch the nazis come into the ghetto in schindler's list, it isn't fun at all, but it still remains a vital point to the modern warfare story. obviously, iw recognized the nature of the level, and hence why it is an option.

i'm also sure there are some sick individuals that replay the level just for the lulz.

**TrakMastaTom** · 11-27-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeGrotowski

So what do you mean by that?

I meant that this article is just as much propaganda as anything. As if video game publishers are trying to train people for the army. No. They are trying to make games that sell.

Like Dudebro said, maybe a few highly impressionable people will think this is cool and sign up. But they would have to have some sort of desire to do it anyway, and that be the final thing that makes them join. No one who has no desire to join the armed forces is going to play a game and instantly sign up.

And if they are already considering it, who cares?

**Dudebro** · 11-27-2009, 11:25 PM

Yeah the other thing that makes this a non issue is how the company made the level optional with no penalty to skip it. They give you two chances to skip it and even if you do play it you never have to partake in the slaughter of innocents.

That being said I fully believe the military has a hand in the majority of games like this. They want young people to learn the basics of tactics and they want to desensitize them. This mission is probably a way of exposing people to potential real life conflicts. I can see this exact scenario unfolding in real life, I bet under some circumstances the undercover guy would start spraying so he doesn't blow his cover and potentially endanger even more people. It's a ethical/moral choice and it makes you pick a side. Most people would refuse, that's the point.

I see nothing wrong with the military trying to influence people through military games. If they started slipping propaganda into Pokemon games I'd be outraged. Well maybe not outraged but I'd certainly care about it more.

**jim5cents** · 11-28-2009, 12:11 AM

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Originally Posted by dudebro

I see nothing wrong with the military trying to influence people through military games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmt

And if they are already considering it, who cares? .

hence america's army. no real uproar about that.

dudebro even touched on a point that i never considered, i played the level once, and after his post, i went back and played it again, you can actually complete the level (after it gives you two opportunities to opt out of it) without killing a single civilian. now, you do have to kill police officers, but at least they are armed and considered combatants.

so back to my original post on this topic, i continue to commend iw for deciding tell a story that is highly controverstial, but for having the common sense for recognizing the nature of the content, and giving the people the option. not once, not twice, but three times.

**Dudebro** · 11-28-2009, 12:18 AM

Yeah things would be different if this was forced under threat of some kind of penalty.

**TrakMastaTom** · 11-28-2009, 01:00 PM

I would say that playing a video game is not nearly as likely to make a kid sign up for the army than a recruiter that comes to their school and tells them how awesome it is. I saw plenty of those when I was in high school.

**Kong** · 11-28-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrakMastaTom

I would say that playing a video game is not nearly as likely to make a kid sign up for the army than a recruiter that comes to their school and tells them how awesome it is. I saw plenty of those when I was in high school.

B is worse than A does not mean A is not bad.

**RU Joe** · 11-28-2009, 09:15 PM

Very good points made by all.
I gotta love those poll results; if you read it a certain way, it says that:

JG has lost it, and it's no biggie.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Ok so I read a few of your posts which state that you are given a choice to, or don't have to kill civilians?
Is this so?

AS far as the concept of 'going ape shit' and engaging in a massive killing spree in games, this is one of my favorite things to do.
Many times I would blow myself up, or kill my own forces to get their guns, or jump off a building just to see what happens in a given game.

Just as many of you have said, doing crazy things in video games does not make one do them in real life.

**Dudebro** · 11-29-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeGrotowski

Ok so I read a few of your posts which state that you are given a choice to, or don't have to kill civilians?
Is this so?

Yeah it's optional from everything I read/heard about it. There's also no penalty in relation to completion or achievements. I'd say it's a smart move.

**TrakMastaTom** · 11-29-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

B is worse than A does not mean A is not bad.

No, but no one (including myself) makes a fuss about sending a recruiter into a building full of impressionable 16-18 year old kids, therefore no one should make a fuss about military video games.

In my humble opinion, of course.

**Kong** · 11-30-2009, 06:18 PM

I make a fuss about it. I think that is horribly screwed up.

**Kugyince** · 11-30-2009, 07:02 PM

Public schools can actually lose their government funding if they do not allow recruiters into the classrooms.

Source:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Not-One-More-Mothers-Child/dp/0977333809]Amazon.com: Not One More Mother's Child (9780977333806): Cindy Sheehan, Thom Hartmann, Jodie Evans, John Conyers Jr.: Books[/ame]

**Dudebro** · 11-30-2009, 10:33 PM

When I was in school I was constantly harassed by a recruiter. He had me pulled out of classes to talk to me and he even called me at home. One time I agreed to meet him at the recruiters station to discuss things and I never showed up(never intended to). After that he really poured it on and tried to make me feel bad. Little did he know that I'm an asshole when put under pressure. I strung him along and made empty promises from that point on. I was trying to get him fired. Yeah, I'm a dick like that when I'm mad.