2014 Retro Uprising Gaming Champ - Page 5

**D.B. Cooper** · 03-12-2014, 08:38 AM

I already put my 2 cents in earlier in this thread about the scoring system. I'll bet the person with the highest score will have finished the first 5 races the fastest while losing the 5th race. It seems it penalizes you for having a slow race so if you burn up all your turbos to win race 5 and then have a slow race 6 you will end up with less points than if you just barely lose in race 5. This is just a theory though and I've not had time to test it. I have played the game enough though to see a correlation between finishing races fast and getting a high score which is why one of my tips was to complete each race as fast as possible even when you're winning.

You can test this in full mode but my local arcade has one of these and I dumped a bunch of quarters in to keep continuing to see how high I could run the score up by finishing a bunch of races and when I quit after around 10 races, my score was less than 1M. The high score on the game was over 2M so this leads me to think that they achieved this score by dumping a bunch of quarters in and upgrading their truck to the max and buying a crap load of turbos so that their times on the first tracks were incredible. My times with a non upgraded truck using just the tubos I could buy without using more quarters were way slower than the fastest lap times on the machine.

**Barra** · 03-12-2014, 05:20 PM

Thanks DB. Sorry didnt see you earlier post.

In max's run he bought some upgrades other than turbos.

Im going to test it out this weekend and see if I can figure it out. You sound like you are onto something, DB.

**maxh** · 03-12-2014, 06:18 PM

Quote:

he bought some upgrades other than turbos

Yeah. I went higher top speed, faster acceleration, then wheels. I went for the first two as I was always running out of nitros, then wheels for control.

I like your thinking too DB. It makes perfect sense.

I'm going to try tracking race times against total score to look for scoring patterns. I'm not sure how long I'll need to gather enough data.

I'll also try massive nitros in full mode, though I always suffer from heavy lag anytime I play any game in full mode so this may be a difficult task.

It would be nice to understand the exact scoring system, though this may not be available without digging into code (beyond my scope).

**Barra** · 03-12-2014, 06:31 PM

Ill run through the first stage a bunch of times noting down the time, score, and use of nitros, to formulate some theories.

**QAOP Spaceman** · 03-12-2014, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxh

I like your thinking too DB. It makes perfect sense.

It would be nice to understand the exact scoring system

Ditto and ditto. And great score, Max

I've been trying the no-goodies DB strategy but it hasn't seemed to be paying off for me yet... Max, if you don't mind me asking, did you top up the max speed, acceleration, tyres etc more than once? Maybe the key is not to go too crazy on the upgrades?

It is fun doing this on one credit, as I recall in the arcade whoever had the most 10p coins in the machine tended to come out on top

**D.B. Cooper** · 03-12-2014, 09:33 PM

I just tried to watch my 1,174,000 game and it goes out of wack after the second race. I did notice though that I purchased a top speed upgrade after the first race but used all my money on turbos after the second. I was hoping to tally the times for each race and compare with others.

It looks like purchasing an upgrade or two is probably the better way to go.

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

Just watched Ballas's 1,198,000 score and I have to say I'm baffled by what I saw. This is not meant as a put down because it obviously worked but the lap times were way slower than I expected. I wish I could watch the rest of my playback. He won four races and lost the fifth.

1. 66.27 (my time was 61.8 )
2. 57.75 (my time was 49.09)
3. 52.57
4. 46.45
5. 48.85

It's very possible that his times in the later races were faster than mine but this certainly blows away my theory that you need to be fast in all races. I'm pretty much back to square one in figuring this out. I'm gonna go watch maxh's run and see if that helps.

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

Not much help.

1. 65.97
2. 59.93
3. 52.36
4. 45.63
5. 49.51

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

Ya, I don't get it. I just used a save state to do a game where 3 of my four wins were faster the maxh's, my average time was faster and I finished third in the 6th race compared to maxh's 4th. My score was 951,000?

The attraction screen for the game says "Salary based on average track times and number of races." I'm not buying it.

**maxh** · 03-13-2014, 04:14 AM

Quote:

did you top up the max speed, acceleration, tyres etc more than once?

After race 1: speed; after race 2; accel and tires; all other races: nitros until available cash was depleted.

I did play a game last night in full mode where I started with maxed out everything. I ended up with a 800-900 score despite some jiffy race times. While this may be a direct result of my limited abilities rather than resource use, and while inconclusive, it's an interesting side note.

Quote:

"Salary based on average track times and number of races." I'm not buying it.

I'm not either. "Salary" however, is not the same as score.

Other elements obviously are at play. Lapping maybe? Picking up of items (cash and nitros)? Some variable based on all/some of these things?

I'll continue to track race times against score to gather data.

I'm hoping Barra will come up with some pearls of wisdom!

**Barra** · 03-13-2014, 06:03 AM

After reading what you guys have posted Im getting pretty worried. But nevertheless something like this will annoy and nag at me until we find out. Hopefully thats sooner rather than later!
I WILL get to the bottom of this. :P

---------- Post added 03-14-2014 at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was 03-13-2014 at 11:41 PM ----------

Early tests suggest getting a slower time and picking up more bonuses is better. I finished race 1 in 59.4 seconds while nabbing $60000 and 1 nitro, points were (after not moving on race 2) 736000.
I think there is a base score after the 1st race of 500k as I cannot seem to get below that (without losing).
Ill get a boatload of info on the weekend. Need to find a version where save states work with this game.

**D.B. Cooper** · 03-13-2014, 08:31 AM

I was able to get save states to work although it was glitchy. I saved at the "start the next race" screen and when I would hit F7 it only brought up a small portion of that screen but I was able to hit the next race box and it would play the next race just fine.

I did another run before crashing last night and my times were significantly better on all races than either Ballas's or maxh's times. I thought it was my best run ever as I smoked all of the first four races and still had enough nitro left to do decent on the fifth race. Was pretty excited and was ready to hit the F12 button to submit as this run had to at least be better than the 1,070,000 score I have submitted for the yearly contest where I didn't even win the fourth race. My final score was 1,010,000. I give up.

This game is simply a copy of Super/Championship Sprint only with 4x4 trucks. Not sure why they felt the need to make the scoring system so much different.

**QAOP Spaceman** · 03-13-2014, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra

After reading what you guys have posted Im getting pretty worried. But nevertheless something like this will annoy and nag at me until we find out. Hopefully thats sooner rather than later!
I WILL get to the bottom of this. :P
...

Ill get a boatload of info on the weekend.

I'll try and chip in over the weekend as well, Barra, and let's see if we can make some sense of this. Hopefully I'll get a bit of time to put up a chart or something.

It's like the guy on the ground in Dirty Harry after Clint's feeling lucky 'do you, punk?' speech - I gots to know!

**Barra** · 03-13-2014, 07:15 PM

It looks like the minimum score you can get is $512000. I started a game and just let it run without moving the car and that was my final score. Didnt get any bonus nitros, cash or anything. So weird.

**maxh** · 03-13-2014, 08:27 PM

My thinking earlier today was: base start score (512,000) + nitro prizes (* quantity per grab) + cash bags (* quantity per grab) + cash for end position = total score.

I thought about the above today when away from RU and was unable to test it. I was sure I had it but unfortunately I've already proven it not to be true tonight after several tests.

I am still thinking that race times have no relevance. I tried all sorts of one race variations just like yours Barra, but never tracked the various race times completed. The result always ended with a score of 512,000 after the first race. Always.

I then ran a bunch of two race variations and always ended up with the same score of 576,000.

More data to follow this weekend...

**Barra** · 03-13-2014, 08:29 PM

I ran a race two and ended up with 476000. WTF?

**maxh** · 03-13-2014, 08:43 PM

I ran one race variations then intentionally cowered to the side of race two to see how prize bumps would tally. I then ran two race variations then cowered at the start of race three to check tallies.

My intent is to create nearly identical scenarios in hopes of finding a variance.

I'm now working on three race variations.

I'm noting all prizes and prize values captured on all variations and compiling data.

**Barra** · 03-13-2014, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxh

I ran one race variations then intentionally cowered to the side of race two to see how prize bumps would tally. I then ran two race variations then cowered at the start of race three to check tallies.

My intent is to create nearly identical scenarios in hopes of finding a variance.

I'm now working on three race variations.

I'm noting all prizes and prize values captured on all variations and compiling data.

Exactly the same here. We can share results after the weekend and see if we come up with the same conclusions

**D.B. Cooper** · 03-13-2014, 09:29 PM

My save state is after race 3 and if I don't move after that race my score is 473,000.

**Kong** · 03-14-2014, 02:58 PM

I don't think collecting money bags or holding onto money helps.

**Barra** · 03-15-2014, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

I don't think collecting money bags or holding onto money helps.

Did a few tests and this seems correct.

After initials tests on races 1 and 2, the salary is almost definitely based solely on your finishing times versus the average (which is 99.99). I finished race 1 in both 56 and 74 seconds and still had 576000 after doing nothing on race 2.

Couple of tips:
1. Dont use turbos when you dont have to. You can finish the first 3 or even the 4th without using 1 turbo.
2. The CPU cars go fast when you do - at least in the first few races.
3. Purely speculative but each race time might be linked. Ie salary goes down if your race was slower than the previous. This would explain why it was going down from races 2-3
4. Upgrades, nitros, bonuses or leftover cash dont seem to have any effect on salary

**Kong** · 03-16-2014, 10:34 AM

I think the grey car upgrades when you do and the blue car always upgrades.

Complete guess, not based on any facts: Maybe your score is based on how you compare to the other racers. If the computer has a slower than normal avg time then your score goes up? Lapping the computer gives you more points?

The big question though is when and what upgrades should you purchase?

**maxh** · 03-16-2014, 11:06 AM

I'm weary of tracking this stuff. My motivation dropped upon not finding anything conclusive. Maybe there is something here and I'm not seeing it. Here's what I have for now (and perhaps forever) as far as tracking goes:

Test 1: run a few car lengths, then stop and intentionally come in fourth- won 70K for 4th place (512,000)

Test 2: repeat above, same results (512,000)

Test 3: repeat above, same results (512,000)

Test 4: repeat above, same results (512,000)

Test 5: run one lap, cower in corner, grab no prizes - 70K (512,000)

Test 6: repeat above, same results (512,000)

Test 7: run two laps, cower, no grab, same results (512,000)

Test 8: three laps, repeat above, same results (512,000)

Test 9: win race, no grab, then cower at start of second race - 100K race 1, 70k race 2 (576,000)

Test 10: win race 1, grabbed 1* nitro + 2* nito, cower race 2 - (576,000)

Test 11: win race 1, grabbed 10K money bag + 1* nitro + 2* nitro, cower race 2 (576,000)

Test 12: win race 1, grabbed 20K MB + 1*+2*+4*N, cower race 2 (576,000)

Test 13: win race 1, 1*N, bought top speed, cower race 2 (576,000)

Test 14: win race 1, 10K + 20K + 1*N + 3*N, cower race 2 (576,000)

Test 15: win race 1+2, cower race 3, N*4 + N*6, 30K + 1*N + 2*N + 3*N (460,000!)

Test 16: win race 1+2, cower race 3, 10K + 20K, 1*N + 2*N + 4*N + 20K (460,000!)

Tracking 17: 1*N + 10 + 20 + 30, 2*n + 20 + 40, race 3 no prizes, cower race 4 (622,000)

Tracking 18: 2*N, 1*N + 3*N + 20 + 30, 1*N + 10, cower race 4 (642,000)

Tracking 19: 1*N + 2*N + 5*N + 10, 1*N + 20, 1*N + 20, cower race 4 (691,000)

Tracking 20: 1*N + 3*N + 10, 2*N, 1*N + 2*N + 20, cower race 4 (607,000)

**QAOP Spaceman** · 03-16-2014, 11:52 AM

Quote:

I'm weary of tracking this stuff.

Ditto Max - I more or less did your Tests 1 thru 15 and gave up when I got a lower score after dying on the 3rd rather than the second.

But as Barra speculates...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra

3. Purely speculative but each race time might be linked. I.e. salary goes down if your race was slower than the previous. This would explain why it was going down from races 2-3

So I tried - just for kicks - to see if the reverse is true - i.e. get a deliberately slow time in race 1, and try and get progressively faster and see if you get rewarded for that.

I managed to come last (I think) in race 5 and I thought, balls, as I'm pretty sure all my 1m+ games i got to track 6...

Score: 1.121m. I just submitted it. So maybe there's something in it.

Or maybe... just maybe... Occam's razor raises itself here - either this game has the most fiendishly opaque and complex scoring system ever (and after the end of the Golden Era with buy-ins and continues who gave a hoot about scores anymore?) or maybe we're all wasting our time

**maxh** · 03-16-2014, 12:38 PM

Quote:

1.121m

Nice one.

Quote:

who gave a hoot about scores anymore?

I would imagine that few programmer (if any) in that era ever cared about scores or scoring, unless as you note it compels the user to invest more.

Barra's a wise one... I'll give that strategy a whirl.

**QAOP Spaceman** · 03-16-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxh

I would imagine that few programmer (if any) in that era ever cared about scores or scoring, unless as you note it compels the user to invest more.

Especially true with this game... with three wheels on the front of the cab it was all about beating your friends and / or strangers in the here and now, rather than getting your name on the scoreboard... witness all the AAA's up there

**Barra** · 03-16-2014, 06:51 PM

Pretty much same results as I got max. However I eliminated the fact that any upgrades change your score using save states.
I was concentrating more on lap times
Still though, nothing conclusive.

**Kong** · 03-16-2014, 07:45 PM

I used cheats and saves in Off-Road.

( Click to show/hide )

Pretty sure these are facts.
The computer speed is based entirely on the speed of your previous race. There is a max.
Faster race time = higher score = faster competition in next race = harder game.
The race times of the computer drivers do not affect your score. Lapping the computer does not change your score.
Money (spent or collected), powerups, and nitros have no effect on your score or the computer drivers.

I suspect.
There is no difference in placing 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
Being lapped in the final race hurts your final time which hurts your score.
Some tracks give you more points than others.