NFL - Page 19

**Kugyince** · 01-25-2011, 08:59 PM

He's still a meat head. I don't like him as a person at all but I still feel he's the best quarterback playing in the NFL today. It's never a pretty win and he doesn't put up the numbers but there's no one more clutch than he is.

You can't ignore a 10 - 2 playoff record.

**StarfoxFan2009** · 01-25-2011, 09:01 PM

just as i figured. So, anyone else excited about the Hall of Fame inductees for this year?

**jim5cents** · 01-26-2011, 09:31 AM

I think Ben shares a trait with Brady, in which the seasons that they have success, they have been absolutely stacked defensively.

Not trying to take anything away from Ben, but I do not believe in the concept of clutch in sports. Statisically, it doesn't exist. A touchdown in the first quarter is worth just the same in the fourth. If a quarterback has 3 touchdowns in the first quarter and basically locks up the game for his team, what is the difference, a W is a W.

The players that we label as clutch also have the tendancy to appear on good teams, simply because those good teams will be competitive against other good teams. If Ben was on the Browns for example and they didn't win, would he still be (arguably) the best "clutch" player in the league?

**sabby** · 01-26-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

but I do not believe in the concept of clutch in sports. Statisically, it doesn't exist. A touchdown in the first quarter is worth just the same in the fourth. If a quarterback has 3 touchdowns in the first quarter and basically locks up the game for his team, what is the difference, a W is a W.

The players that we label as clutch also have the tendancy to appear on good teams, simply because those good teams will be competitive against other good teams. If Ben was on the Browns for example and they didn't win, would he still be (arguably) the best "clutch" player in the league?

I disagree. Are you saying that the stress level being down by 3 on your own 35 with 2 minutes left on the clock in the fourth quarter is the same when you are in the same situation (down 3 on the 35) with 10:45 in the first? Yes the point totals for touchdowns are the same, but the situations are totally different.

Clutch is an immeasurable, intangible quality (such as leadership, charisma, etc.) The ones that have it succeed, the ones that do not, not so much.

The reason why Ben is clutch is because he has been put in the situations with the Steelers to be clutch. If the Browns were in many close games this year, I would argue that if Ben was on the team, they would have won more of them than lost and be in the playoffs.

**jim5cents** · 01-26-2011, 11:05 AM

I know we are going to agree to disagree on this, but here is my last gasp for air on this topic.

Roethlisberger has had great success in what would be called "clutch" situations. The most recent that comes to mind is the 3 and 20 in the game against Baltimore pass to Brown that put the Steelers on the 5 and basically won the game. In a sport that is as dynamic as football, a lot of things had to go right for that play to happen, therefore, multiple players had to be "clutch", similarly, the opposing players were not clutch or were less clutch. If you think of it in those terms, "clutch performances" do become a measurable quality.

During that same weekend, Marc Sanchez had a game against the Colts that I though bordered on the pathetic. Probably 2 out of 3 passes were overthrown, yet late in the game, Sanchez made a pass to Braylon Edwards that made the winning field goal possible. Even though Sanchez was awful, would this play grant him the label of clutch, keep in mind that had he made a fraction of the throws that he missed earlier, he is likely not in the situation?

If I was going to put a label on the best clutch player, it wouldn't be Roethlisberger, it would be Adam Vinatieri.

**sabby** · 01-26-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

Roethlisberger has had great success in what would be called "clutch" situations. The most recent that comes to mind is the 3 and 20 in the game against Baltimore pass to Brown that put the Steelers on the 5 and basically won the game. In a sport that is as dynamic as football, a lot of things had to go right for that play to happen, therefore, multiple players had to be "clutch", similarly, the opposing players were not clutch or were less clutch. If you think of it in those terms, "clutch performances" do become a measurable quality.

Totally agree, I still do not see how it is a measurable quality though. Teamwork and team camaraderie are the intangibles that win games, I do not see how it is measurable, comparable maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

During that same weekend, Marc Sanchez had a game against the Colts that I though bordered on the pathetic. Probably 2 out of 3 passes were overthrown, yet late in the game, Sanchez made a pass to Braylon Edwards that made the winning field goal possible. Even though Sanchez was awful, would this play grant him the label of clutch, keep in mind that had he made a fraction of the throws that he missed earlier, he is likely not in the situation?

I'm sure that is how it was described by the announcing crew during the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

If I was going to put a label on the best clutch player, it wouldn't be Roethlisberger, it would be Adam Vinatieri.

Kickers have the most thankless job in professional sports. Who else in professional sports gets crapped on more if they miss a kick and less accolades for winning a game than these guys.

But because of this being a star driven society, the majority of the media drive to the leadership positions, so in the NFL, quarterbacks get all the attention and labels (clutch, horrible, etc.)

**jim5cents** · 01-26-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Who else in professional sports gets crapped on more if they miss a kick and less accolades for winning a game than these guys.

Sidenote to this story, one of my college roommate's aunt is married to a guy named Bob Rotella. This guy basically invented the field of sports psychology, written several books on the subject, and developed the first sports psych program at the University of Virginia. Once upon a time, this roommate, another friend, and myself were doing a spring break college campus tour and one stop was at UVA and we stopped in for a visit. After talking to the aunt for a while, she told us to go downstairs and meet Bob, who should be finishing up with a client. The client was NFL kicker, Jay Feely. Two or three seasons later,Feely missed 3 potential game winning fields goals, one at the end of regulation, and the other two during overtime, while playing for the Giants against the Seahawks. We were all Giants' fans. We spent the next week cussing out some guy that we already knew had coping issue concerning performance anxiety.

**tanc24** · 01-26-2011, 12:54 PM

Cool story. Dr. Bob is legit. I've read his book "Golf is not a game of perfect" and really enjoyed it.

As for Big Ben, he is most definitely clutch. He has what I call a "fighter's mentality" and I think it translates to big plays when his team needs him the most. Yes, a great defense helps, but the guy has already solidified himself as Hall of Fame caliber. If he wins his third Superbowl this year (which he won't

) he'll be a lock.

Side note, if the Packers win, Aaron Rodgers will have as many Super Bowl rings in 3 seasons (as a starter) as Brett Favre did in 15. How's that for icing on the cake in what has been a disasterous season for Favre?

**CrispyChicken** · 02-06-2011, 09:13 PM

Congrats to the Green Bay Packers for winning the Super Bowl!!

**Dudebro** · 02-06-2011, 09:32 PM

Funny story, I didn't even know the super bowl was today until about an hour ago.

**Seahawk** · 02-06-2011, 09:39 PM

Your avatar looks like the loggers in that one Snickers commercial.

**Dudebro** · 02-06-2011, 09:40 PM

I'm not familiar with that ad you'll have to link it to verify.

**Seahawk** · 02-06-2011, 09:45 PM

Go here and look for the "Snickers - Logging" one.
YouTube - adblitz's Channel

**Dudebro** · 02-06-2011, 09:48 PM

Awesome SH, +1

**CrispyChicken** · 02-07-2011, 04:14 PM

Wow, they're so alike, they can be brothers XD +1 Seahawk!

**tanc24** · 02-07-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenser

If the Pack wins it'll only be because Pitt shot themselves in the foot.

Truer words were never spoken. GB had 21 points off of 3 Steeler turnovers and the Steelers STILL had a shot to win at the end.

I was happy to see another great Super Bowl matchup. It's been several years since we've had a stinker of a game, and that's just fine by me!

**Kugyince** · 02-07-2011, 06:42 PM

Perhaps it's just sour grapes but I didn't enjoy this game. Of course I didn't enjoy Pitt losing but even when the score was 0 - 0 I wasn't excited. I think I watched too much crappy pregame show. Too many red carpet interviews with celebs who weren't even fans of either team.

Did the likes of John Travolta, Adam Sandler, and Jennifer Aniston really need to be displayed when they don't even really care about who wins? Meanwhile you have actual fans who've paid $800 a seat get sent out of the stadium.

**tanc24** · 02-07-2011, 07:03 PM

You mean to tell me you weren't geeked up in the 3rd quarter?? I can understand how being barraged by that crap they called a pre-game show (Aniston picked the right wig

) but that game got pretty damn exciting in the 2nd half.

Not nearly as exciting as last year's game, but still a good Superbowl.

**Kugyince** · 02-07-2011, 07:19 PM

Not at all really. I didn't even jump out of my seat once. I just sat back and watched, slightly annoyed.

This is coming from a guy who's broken multiple remotes, put several holes in the walls, shattered a cell phone, and threw a steel toe boot through a TV during Steeler games.

**jim5cents** · 02-07-2011, 07:38 PM

Even though the score was close at the end, I didn't think it was an exciting game. Too many mistakes by both teams, Pittsburgh with the turnovers, and the GB receivers that almost seemed like they didn't want to catch the ball at times. Felt like there was never a good rhythm in the game, seemed like Pitt always had the ball and they were perpetually on the 40 yard line going out.

**Dudebro** · 02-07-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenser

This is coming from a guy who's broken multiple remotes, put several holes in the walls, shattered a cell phone, and threw a steel toe boot through a TV during Steeler games.

Seems like you take sports a little too seriously.

**Kugyince** · 02-07-2011, 08:41 PM

Yeah, I understand that I do. Too much emotional investment.

I've given serious consideration to getting a Steelers tattoo on multiple occasions and attempted to name my son after a player. I threatened to miss my son's birth if he was born on a Steeler SB appearance. I can't go to anyone else's house and watch a Steeler game because of my fanaticism.

**jim5cents** · 02-07-2011, 08:47 PM

Tenser Hines Franco Bradshaw Roethlisberger Randle-El Cowler Hunter Jr is a bit of a mouthful.

**StarfoxFan2009** · 02-07-2011, 08:48 PM

Congratulations to the Pack for winning (much to my chagrin -_-) aalso, congrats to the newest NFL hall of fame members:

Richard Dent-DE (Bears, 49ers, Eagles)
Deion Sanders- CB (Cowboys, 49ers, Falcons, Ravens)
Marshall Faulk- RB (Colts, Rams)
Shannon Sharpe- TE (Broncos, Ravens)

and three others of which i am not familiar

**Kugyince** · 02-07-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5cents

Tenser Hines Franco Bradshaw Roethlisberger Randle-El Cowler Hunter Jr is a bit of a mouthful.

While Hines is the greatest slot receiver to ever grace the 100 yard stretch the name leaves a bit to be desired.

It's all about the Man of Steel #58.

Time to change the old avatar.