Mma

[Slime Slayer]

anyone here like ufc, wec, affliction ect.?

[Dudebro]

I do. Nothing better than watching tough guys knock each other out. Well, seeing a tough guy tap out is cool too.

[Slime Slayer]

nice, are you following the greased up gsp stuff? didnt he decimate bj penn awsomely? (im a gsp nuthugger)
ultimate fight night live tommorrow

[jim5cents]

casual ufc fan, i'm not going to buy any of the pay-per-views. if it is on spike and i'm channel surfing, i'll watch.

i really tuned out of it for a long time, i was 11 or 12 when ken shamrock and royce gracie had their "superfight", that was gracie tied shamrock up and went to ground in the first 20 seconds and stayed their for 30 minutes...so boring, it wasn't until chuck lidell started making ufc mainstream that i started to take notice again.

[Slime Slayer]

yeah i was turned off for the same reason as you at first, but the sport has developped alot since then, its really a whole new game these days, also if you dont want to spring for the ppv events justin.tv always streams them live. tommorrows event is free on spike.

edit: liddells a douch

[McNasty616]

Most of the good fights are always on ppv

But that's what youtube's for

[Slime Slayer]

ill always try my hardest to see it live, its just not the same if im not saying the same thing as joe rogan at the exact same time

[jim5cents]

Originally Posted by stevencassidy

edit: liddells a douch

i'll totally agree with that, but i'll give credit where credit is due, he was the big name champion that ufc needed 2 or 3 years to help thrust the sport into the spotlight.

note:tito ortiz is also a douch, doesn't mean i'm ever going to pick a fight with either one of them.

[Slime Slayer]

yeah, titos personality is very douchy, with chuck its more his fighting style, he was awsome with his power punches, until the rest of the weight class started to outrank him in every other category

[Winnebagel]

In the past I have always been a mega boxing fan, but with the sad state of the sweet science these days, I have been starting to pay more attention to MMA. I catch it when I can (mostly in passing) but I like what I see. Call me a barbarian, but I like it when the ladies beat on each other in MMA too.

[Billy Hoyle]

Originally Posted by Winnebagel

In the past I have always been a mega boxing fan, but with the sad state of the sweet science these days, I have been starting to pay more attention to MMA. I catch it when I can (mostly in passing) but I like what I see. Call me a barbarian, but I like it when the ladies beat on each other in MMA too.

Describe what you mean by the 'sad state of the sweet science'.

If you're referring to trinket belts and too many weight classes, then yes, I agree with you that boxing has seen better days in regards to those subjects.

If you're referring to the lack of American heavyweight talent, then yes, I also agree . As I believe Bert Sugar stated, they are all playing linebacker in the NFL.

But if you actually are paying attention to boxing, there are a multitude of great fighters and compelling storylines happening as I type these words. From 130 to 168 there are a ton of great, young fighters. Do you realize how big of an event there is going to be if Mayweather is able to get past Marquez this summer? It doesn't even matter if he fights Pacquiao. Mayweather is arguably the best self-promotor since Muhammad Ali.

I might be on the short side of this discussion here, but it aggravates me when I hear people bashing boxing and saying how MMA is the next great thing in terms of the fistic arts. From what I've observed of MMA, most of these guys are muscle-bound and poorly conditioned. It's nice to see them stand up and swing, but I haven't seen one person in MMA who has the hand and/or defensive skills to last more than a couple of rounds with an elite boxer. And I've never understood the appeal of watching two grown men roll around a ring and grope each other, which it seems is what goes on 75% of the time in an MMA fight.

Thoughts? Opinions? I love discussing this.

[Dojah]

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

I might be on the short side of this discussion here, but it aggravates me when I hear people bashing boxing and saying how MMA is the next great thing in terms of the fistic arts. From what I've observed of MMA, most of these guys are muscle-bound and poorly conditioned. It's nice to see them stand up and swing, but I haven't seen one person in MMA who has the hand and/or defensive skills to last more than a couple of rounds with an elite boxer. And I've never understood the appeal of watching two grown men roll around a ring and grope each other, which it seems is what goes on 75% of the time in an MMA fight.

Honestly I don't think you know much about MMA. You saying most of these guys are muscle-bound and poorly conditioned is the craziest statement Ive heard on this post yet. What muscle-bound people are you refering to? Brock? Kongo? If you really watched you would see they are not as muscley as you say. GSP, Silva, Griffen, Machida, Rua, Rampage, Liddell, Couture, Penn, Florian etc... are far from that. These fighters compete at standards level with professional athletes (i.e. baseball, basketball, football, etc...) If not more. And also the statement of an MMA fighter lasting a couple rounds with an elite boxer is not well grounded seeing that every single proffesional boxer which includes K-1 has got slaughtered when it comes to fighting an average MMA fighter. We can take one look at the originator of MMA and see why its called the new thing. Bruce Lee is known and still confirmed the best fighter that ever lived. Pride Fighting was an orginization that had many elite boxers enter and come out as losers....As a matter of fact the only elite boxer that ever made it far was Cro-Cop...which he eventually got creamed.
I mean no offence when saying this, this is just my opinion. But I have grown up in the sport and think you are way off when it comes to certain facts brought up.

[Billy Hoyle]

Originally Posted by Dojah

You saying most of these guys are muscle-bound and poorly conditioned is the craziest statement Ive heard on this post yet.

The proof's in the pudding. Most heavy handed, one punch K.O. boxers have had muscular, yet sleek and athletic bodies. If you need to see an example, look up Thomas Hearns, Roberto Duran, Kelly Pavlik, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey etc. Most of the men mentioned in your post have bulky frames that look as if they have been created by lifting a lot of weights. Lifting weights may make you look intimidating and tough, but unless you can throw a punch with the proper leverage and balance all of that muscle mass means nothing.

These guys could also go for 12 to 15 rounds. That's 36 to 45 minutes. What is the average MMA fight? Four 5 minute rounds? Less time equals less conditioning. Nothing against the MMA guys for that because their sport doesn't require the same amount of conditioning, but facts are facts. Please spare the argument that they need to worry about wrestling and going to the ground. One, boxers have to deal with clinches and in-fighting where there's a lot of body contact and two, often times in MMA guys can/will take short breaks when they go to the ground.

Originally Posted by Dojah

These fighters compete at standards level with professional athletes (i.e. baseball, basketball, football, etc...) If not more.

That doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Dojah

And also the statement of an MMA fighter lasting a couple rounds with an elite boxer is not well grounded seeing that every single proffesional boxer which includes K-1 has got slaughtered when it comes to fighting an average MMA fighter. Pride Fighting was an orginization that had many elite boxers enter and come out as losers....As a matter of fact the only elite boxer that ever made it far was Cro-Cop...which he eventually got creamed.

Mirko Cro-Cop? The same Mirko Cro-Cop that as a boxer had a 40-5 amateur record and a 12-5 professional record.

***Correction*** Boxrec.com, the online reference that contains the results of approximately 1.4 million professional boxing matches has no entry for Mirko Filipovic. Granted, boxrec.com does not keep track of amateur bouts, but the 12-5 boxing record appears to be bogus. It might be his professional kickboxing record.

Considering all of these fights took place in Croatia, I hardly consider him an elite boxer. Tell me why you think these 'boxers' cross over to MMA. Has an MMA pay per view card ever generated 2.5 million buys?

Originally Posted by Dojah

Bruce Lee is known and still confirmed the best fighter that ever lived. I mean no offence when saying this, this is just my opinion.

Known and confirmed? By who? Did he ever really fight anyone?

[Slime Slayer]

the very best in any sport are extremely conditioned, ufc has generated over a million buys, but keep in mind that there is 1 about one ufc a month.
also just want to point out that, freddie roach (im guessing we all know who that is)
has trained many mma fighters including, Andrei Arlovski, Anderson Silva, B.J. Penn, Tito Ortiz and Sokoudjou
as far as the fact boxer go for 12 rounds is different, the boxers have short bursts of energy, where in mma you may need to hold on to a guillotine choke for 30 seconds, that exhausts your energy alot quicker.

[Dojah]

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

The proof's in the pudding. Most heavy handed, one punch K.O. boxers have had muscular, yet sleek and athletic bodies. If you need to see an example, look up Thomas Hearns, Roberto Duran, Kelly Pavlik, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey etc. Most of the men mentioned in your post have bulky frames that look as if they have been created by lifting a lot of weights.

OK this almost laughable but here it goes. Like I said obvioulsy you know nothing about MMA. The people I listed do not have bulky frames, and do not look even close to someone created by lifting weights...and wouldnt that also say the exact oposite of what you said about MMA fighters being un-conditioned? There is no proof in your pudding what so ever...lol. The fighters you bring up are bigger than my list by far. Congo and Lesnar are only exception.

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

These guys could also go for 12 to 15 rounds. That's 36 to 45 minutes. What is the average MMA fight? Four 5 minute rounds? Less time equals less conditioning. Nothing against the MMA guys for that because their sport doesn't require the same amount of conditioning, but facts are facts. Please spare the argument that they need to worry about wrestling and going to the ground. One, boxers have to deal with clinches and in-fighting where there's a lot of body contact and two, often times in MMA guys can/will take short breaks when they go to the ground.

Ok another laughable point you make. First boxing only goes 12 rounds now. Been like that for 2 years-ish. Such orginization like RioHeroes go with no breaks til fight is done. Also lets use math like you try to use...MMA fight can go to 25 minutes with only 4 breaks 4 INUTES. Boxing can go 36 minutes with 11 breaks and 11 minutes of break time. almost 3 times the break /less than 1/3 more fight time. You saying thier sport does not require the same amount of conditioning is simply your ignorance on this sport. You can google the training regiments of fighters and you can see boxers do not compare. It's no big deal, you just do not know about the sport or the fighters and your FACTS are NOT facts...they are assumptions.
Talking about boxers who clinch and fighting with lots of body contact is hilarious when comparing to technical arts of ground fighting. Not a big deal just another point about you not knowing about the sport. When boxers clinch its just for that reason mostly..for resting. It's not a technical move.

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

That doesn't make sense to me.

I dont understand how that can not make sense. Maybe the word level threw you off, it means equal in this discussion

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

Mirko Cro-Cop? The same Mirko Cro-Cop that as a boxer had a 40-5 amateur record and a 12-5 professional record.

You must also not know about K-1 which is what I am speaking of. He was a K-1 champion. You might not feel like this is an elite boxer but your belief/feeling means nothing.

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

Tell me why you think these 'boxers' cross over to MMA. Has an MMA pay per view card ever generated 2.5 million buys?

Well people like De la Hoya, Mayweather, Hasim Rahman who talked about going over to MMA talks about this being realer than boxing. Your assumption of generated buys is yet another point you make about knowing nothing about MMA
Going off stats. Ufc has generated more money in its first 16 years than boxing did. Remember Ufc is still new, Boxing as a sport is over 100 years old. Although this generated buys part of the convo means nothing and holds no ground.

Originally Posted by Billy Hoyle

Known and confirmed? By who? Did he ever really fight anyone?

Well going off testimony form the best fighters of his generation(top ranked champions of the world) to todays best fighters. He faught many times...but lets remember there was no style on style compititions back then that even compae to what we have today. He was known for his many fights in China, along with his greatest fight achievement winning overGrandMaster Wong Jack Man. Highest ranked Master in America at that time..and I believe still is. This was also before he created JKD...which we now call MMA.

Lets look at reality for a minute and not fantasy world. Boxing is so below MMA it's funny to even argue over it. You try to bring up these so called facts that are so far off based its funny. Why do you think our special forces learn such techniques as JKD/MMA/ Paul Vunak who learned from Bruce Lee's top student Don Inosanto taught our most elite special forces these techniques. Also SCIENCE has confirmed that a boxers punch is about 4 times as weak as a simple kick...something boxers know nothing about. They also confirmed a simple knee is also stronger than a boxers punch. They usedSteve Petramale who is well known and a hgh up trainer in the boxing world. I know you know who he is.
This can be seen on youtube if you would like.
Also about boxers who come get beat in MMA..we can see champion Ray Mercer get his butt handed to him by a very unskilled street fighter named KIMBO. Kimbo sucks badly and he taught Mercer a lesson. We also have Yosuke Nishijima the WBO NABO cruiserweight title, the OPBF cruiserweight title and the World Boxing Federation cruiserweight champ who tried to fight MMA and has an impressing 0-5 record.
The point is in the real world MMA dominates boxing. This is not a fantasy world where people only use thier hands. There are hands, elbows, knees, shins, feet, submissions, throws of all kinds, and really the list goes on and on. A fight includes them all...now a slap fight hehe boxing would be what you want to learn.
I mean no harm in this post billy. I'll let you slap me with one of those huge boxing gloves.

[jim5cents]

nothing barbaric about that...if only they would fight with coconut cream pies

[Dudebro]

Originally Posted by jim5cents

nothing barbaric about that...if only they would fight with coconut cream pies and nothing else.

Fixed.

All those MMA dudes better watch out for this guy...

( Click to show/hide )

[Winnebagel]

Originally Posted by jim5cents

nothing barbaric about that...if only they would fight with coconut cream pies

I was thinking a bit more about Jello, but whatever works.

Very true Dudebro. I think a lot of people were stunned when Brock took out Couture so easily. I just wish he could have found a way to hit Randy with a folding chair when the ref wasn't looking.

[Dudebro]

I understand what you're saying but I hate how it always goes back to Brock being in WWE. Yeah he was a wrestler but he was an acomplished fighter before that too.
He's huge, scary and laughs at pain, that equals awesome.

[Winnebagel]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

I understand what you're saying but I hate how it always goes back to Brock being in WWE. Yeah he was a wrestler but he was an acomplished fighter before that too.
He's huge, scary and laughs at pain, that equals awesome.

I hear you. I was just joking. In actuality Brock was a very good wrestler on the college scene before he went to the WWE. I remember reading an interview with him prior to his going into WWE and he said he had no interest in prowrestling because he wanted to do football or another team sport. I guess he gave in because Vince McMahon waved a huge paycheck under his nose. Believe me anyone who has seen Brock in action should know there is more to him than entertainment. Thought I do find it entertaining to see his destroy another man.

[Dudebro]

If I remember right Brock tried football before and after WWE and was injured both times(second time was a motorcycle accident).
Funny he seems to get more hurt when he's not fighting.

[DoctorRyanB1]

I'm a pro wrestling fan who always loved seeing Lesner wrestle. He gave a lot to the sport the short time he was there. But I think his career in UFC will be his legacy.

[Dudebro]

Yeah Brock was the man in WWE. His fights vs Kurt Angle are my all time favorites.

[jim5cents]

ncaa wrestling champion to be specific before his professional career.

it is my understanding that he tried out for pro teams, might have even signed with someone, i'm not sure. i saw an interview with him on E:60, he basically said that he was pretty immature, blew through the mcmahon money, he drives a little subcompact now, it is pretty funny to watch lesler get in and out of it.

[Slime Slayer]

lesnar quit wwe because he couldnt handle the lifestyle, wrestling teared him to shreds, he says he doesnt even remember his 2 years in the wwe.
in mma though he is an absolute monster, by far the physically strongest man in all of mma.