I voted to not vote in the poll because both candidates are ridiculously awful choices. Trump is the worst of course but I wouldn't feel right voting Bill Clinton back into office.
Who the heck came up with this poll, Bernie Sanders' camp?
Why, do you think the questions are loaded or something? If I recall right RU users tend to be liberal(by the US standard at least) so these results aren't surprising.
No, I'm not surprised at all at the liberal tilt. I'm usually right in the middle, but slightly liberal socially. I'm surprised so many people hit Sanders as #1.
91% Rand
70% Jeb
58% Trump
57% Retarded (it Berns)
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On a side note, when did capitalism become bad here and everyone's turned into literally a bunch of communists? I wasn't alive at the time, but wasn't the whole sentiment against communism/socialism during the cold war?
On a side note, when did capitalism become bad here and everyone's turned into literally a bunch of communists? I wasn't alive at the time, but wasn't the whole sentiment against communism/socialism during the cold war?
When everyone grew up and realized there's more to life than just looking out for yourself.
The modern culture is too well informed. Knowledge begets liberalism, hence the right-wingers are forced to rely on the informational sheltered and easily frightened; religious zealots and baby boomers.
It's a downward spiral for the conservative party. To appeal to their base they have to take absurd stances against obvious advancements to our society such as stem cell research and gay marriage. This only serves to make the right look even more out-of-touch to any mentally stable and educated person under the age of 40.
Maybe if the Republicans weren't focused on bible thumping and war mongering their other messages of fiscal responsibility and personal freedoms would be better received?
It is impossible to act outside of one's own self interest. Unless of course you are insane or something. Are you people just getting glass eyed when I say you advocate murder and stealing? Looking out for someone else by stealing from another isn't valiant or righteous, is disgusting.
Socialism is a disease, capitalism is the only fair system. By definition, if you for some reason didn't know, is privately owned business. ooooo scary scary
Strong anti-communism/socialism sentiment is/was created by massive government propaganda. If something is so horrible then it shouldn't take that much manipulation to convince the average person. In pure capitalism corporations are more powerful than voters. Doubt in that is supported nearly entirely by propaganda.
"We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness" ~ Jefferson's original draft.
Every law should be judged by that declaration.
I do not deserve more because I am a healthy, straight, white, male born in America. If a law rewards me for winning the birth lottery then the law is wrong.
Some label that belief socialism. I call it a sacred belief that all humans deserve an equal chance for a good life regardless of how lucky they were during birth.
Well you aren't created equal and you don't deserve to live if you can't provide for yourself what you need... the socialist disease is a big part entitlement. Your ideals are to steal from the better off (at gunpoint I might add), to feed the underserving. Disgusting really. Capitalism is the only truly fair system, coupled with a sound money, and everything would work out perfectly. I'm in favor of monarchy or feudalism more than democracy. The free market will determine who *should* be in charge and who shouldnt
@david. You think if someone is not capable of feeding themselves then they should starve to death while society watches and does nothing to help?
The difference between someone that is successful and someone that needs help is entirely luck of birth. You did not earn your privilege it was given to you by randomness.
If you were not yet born and had the potential of being any baby in the world, then you would chose the best outcome for everyone, fewer multi-billionaires and more people with their basic human needs met. That you would choose something different after you know the results of your lucky birth is cheating.
Pure capitalism results in corporations being more important than real humans.
---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------
Obviously feudalism is great if you are a noble, but would you choose feudalism if you had a 9 to 1 chance of being a peasant?
I'm in favor of monarchy or feudalism more than democracy.
How can anyone say this with a straight face? That's the same as saying "I'd rather be ruled over by an elite group of rich people than be free." Surely you're trolling?
No, what you imply is that because someone is starving to death you threaten another's life to feed him. People don't deserve a 'fair start' etc. I would choose the more fair system, not arbitrarily beating up the successful because I'm part of an unwashed mass.
Socialism is as far from freedom as you can get, democracy puts your idiot neighbors in charge, with sound money the kings or lords will be in charge for a reason, unlike this entirely bezzle economy that runs on perpetual debt. The guy with a hamburger sees a starving man, he destroys it away after the starving man asks for it, would you decide to enact violence on him because of this? Im not saying its wrong to help the needy or demonizing them, my point is that socialism promotes being poor, and is not morally upheld. Its a disgusting system.
Everyone *isn't* a special snowflake, you *don't* deserve any standards of living, and its up to you to make it or not. You're alone on an island what do you do? Work. Handicapped or mentally ill? You die. When you really get down to it, if the money is sound, and by that I mean almost literally bitcoin (accountability, impossible to steal or counterfeit, etc), then you will see a ruling class emerge, and they will be there for the right reasons. No king who starts bullshit wars and wastes and impoverishes his kingdom will be a king for long, you know?
And as far as the whole capitalism will lead to corporations having more power than votes.. good. A bribe run system is more desired than democracy, and corporations themselves are a product of the state and the bezzle economy.
---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------
Pretty much the importance of people will be determined on their holdings of wealth, the way it should be.
This poll is definitely slanted towards certain candidates.
The questions are the major political debate topics. The results are based on the candidates answers to those questions. How could that be slanted? If you are surprised by the results then I think that can only mean the political message have mislead you. I hope it is not a shock that politicians are trying to dupe you.
@DB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudebro
Why are people so against globalism?
Because when politicians say globalism they really mean corporatism.
@David
( Click to show/hide )
You said you preferred feudalism. If you assume you would be a noble then I understand. I don't agree but I understand. If you have a 90% chance of being a peasant would you still prefer feudalism?
If yes then you are going to have to explain this to me in baby steps. That is so far beyond me. If I can not be made to understand why we disagree on 15th century politics, then I'll bow out of the rest of the conversation.
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Originally Posted by david man45
Everyone *isn't* a special snowflake.
That's my point! Everyone is the same and therefore no one deserves to be born with a trust fund and everyone deserves Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
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No king who starts bullshit wars and wastes and impoverishes his kingdom will be a king for long, you know?
Never took a European history class or at least watched Game of Thrones?
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You're alone on an island what do you do? Work. Handicapped or mentally ill? You die.
100% agreed.
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Originally Posted by david man45
People acting inside their rational self interest helps everyone.
Read up on game theory. This is very very often not true. Google "Tragedy of the Commons", "Prisoners Dilemma", "Dictator Game".
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Just watch as this unsustainable socialist hell hole starts to crumble and turn into mexico or w/e.
Most countries with the socialist policies we are discussing - education, health care, food, shelter - beat America in nearly any non-military contest, except noble prizes. Far from hell holes.
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Most people shouldn't be able to afford cars
Agreed. But if most people have good free public transportation then they wont have to have cars, so roads will be less congested, the environment less polluted and they can make it to work and stores improving the economy. Detroit shut down public transit in the outer city. Result people didn't show up for work and the economy collapsed further.
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most people shouldn't be able to afford cell phones
Obama phones is what Fox News calls free cell phones for the poor. They were created by Regan though because if someone can answer a phone they have a better chance of getting a job, thus improving the economy.
Arizona gave free homes to all homeless. Arizona is a strong red, republican state. They didn't do it for the warm fuzzies. They did it to save money. Homeless people spend a lot of time in jails and hospitals. They cost an average of $30K-$50K per year. Rent is less than $10K per year. Give someone shelter and they have a chance of getting their life together and contributing to society. Or you can let them stay on the street, annoy you and cost you 3-5 times more in taxes. It's possible to be both selfish and selfless at the same time.
Nearly every city in America will give the homeless a free greyhound bus ticket to anywhere they want for the same reason. It's a good business decision.
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Those who should be in power will be
Rupert Murdoch has power over the media, should he? How is your life better because he is in control of nearly all news?
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And at least with a bad king, you can chop his head off.
How?
Quote:
Originally Posted by david man45
the best possible outcome is to have a 'benign dictatorship' where one person has absolute rule, but is somehow in the best interest for everyone.
Maybe. Brazil sorta pulled this off. Very risky game though. Let's replay history and place a bet on each dictator. I'll take selfish prick, you take benign good guy. I'll bet any amount you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david man45
You should not have a vote in how your country runs simply by existing. You aren't owed anything.
You know those guess how many jelly beans are in the jar contests. Nearly everyone guesses way wrong but the average vote is always nearly exact. Countries with 100% compulsory voting spend less time dealing with extremist issues and more time discussing issues that matter to the majority middle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david man45
It is impossible to act outside of one's own self interest.
Tim Berners-Lee
Clair Cameron Patterson
Galileo Galilei
Aaron Swartz
Norman Borlaug
Jimmy Wales
Brewster Kahle
Retro Uprising
If there was no consequence then you would always make the most selfish choice? Rape, steal, lie, look out only for yourself and damn everyone else? I hope, at some point, there is a line you wouldn't cross. If so, then even you sometimes act outside your own self interest.
Do you think most billionaires earned their money though merit?
Do you think one day a law affecting multi-billionaire might also affect you?
Can you imagine the difference in being a billionaire vs being a multi-billionaire?
Can you imagine the difference of having rotting teeth and no money for a smoothie vs having dental insurance and a hamburger?
It's not about the questions, it's about the results.
Everybody here is a relatively sane individual right?
Why are the same handful of names coming ups so consistently? Why hasn't anybody happened to get Howard Gleason in their top results? This test is twisting something along the way. How could my results yield a 87% and a 29% for 2 separate candidates that are virtually the same?
I challenge you to try and get Ben Carson as your top match. PROTIP: It aint gonna happen.
Last edited by Slime Slayer; 08-28-2015 at 02:23 AM..
Davidman you seem to be missing something in this big picture. You live in a society, you are not surviving on your own. In order for you do well your society must do well. If everyone just thinks of themselves then nothing will get done and people will suffer. Also you seem to be working under the assumption that most poor people will wanna stay poor just because they get government assistance. That's just not true. That's like judging all rich people because of the ones who are criminals. I've been dirt poor, I've known lots of dirt poor people. They are ashamed to get welfare and the like. They don't wanna be poor. But they also don't want their kids to go hungry and they're doing the best they can. Shit happens, not everyone has a great start in life. You judging them all as worthless is pretty offensive.
Our shared history shows us what happens when the rich control the poor. The rich do horrible things to them and they can't fight back, until they do and then everyone suffers even more.
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And as far as the whole capitalism will lead to corporations having more power than votes.. good.
Do you even get what this means? If they are allowed to have lots of power they will ruin the planet and fuck over everyone just to make more money. Imagine this, a struggling poor family(not even on welfare!) has a big polluting chemical planet move in next door. They can't afford to move and the corporation isn't abiding by emission laws because no one can do shit to them. What should they do? Should we say oh well and blame them for not trying harder or something?
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Pretty much the importance of people will be determined on their holdings of wealth, the way it should be.
Then it will turn into might makes right and 99% of us will suffer. I doubt you're significantly wealthy so you'll be in the gutter with the rest of us.
You judging them all as worthless is pretty offensive.
They are worthless, by definition.
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Our shared history shows us what happens when the rich control the poor. The rich do horrible things to them and they can't fight back, until they do and then everyone suffers even more.
Those evil evil rich people. Like I said a lot of the atrocities are only possible through the bezzle system. People acting inside their rational self interest helps everyone. The rich should control the poor, assuming the money is sound. It is a disgusting notion to say you should steal from them. Robin hood was nothing but a glorified thief. You should not have a vote in how your country runs simply by existing. You aren't owed anything.
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Do you even get what this means? If they are allowed to have lots of power they will ruin the planet and fuck over everyone just to make more money. Imagine this, a struggling poor family(not even on welfare!) has a big polluting chemical planet move in next door. They can't afford to move and the corporation isn't abiding by emission laws because no one can do shit to them. What should they do? Should we say oh well and blame them for not trying harder or something?
They would probably already be slaves, but assuming they weren't already, they could sell themselves to someone more rich. Contracts, etc. 'indentured servitude' if you will.
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Then it will turn into might makes right and 99% of us will suffer. I doubt you're significantly wealthy so you'll be in the gutter with the rest of us.
Lol and what, might doesn't already make right? Or it shouldn't? Come now, that's just silly. Like I said capitalism is the only fair system, and it is the best system for the poor. Just watch as this unsustainable socialist hell hole starts to crumble and turn into mexico or w/e... although if all goes according to plan I should be better off than most ^_^
This will probably make most people come to a rude awakening soon enough. Most people shouldn't be able to afford cars, most people shouldn't be able to afford cell phones, and as soon as this whole gross fiat system collapses everything I said will ring true. Its the best system based soley on the fact that the free market will figure things out. Its like nature, but with money. Those who should be in power will be, those who shouldn't be wont be. same goes for who has wealth
---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------
And at least with a bad king, you can chop his head off. What do you do in democracy? 3 heads will grow in its place.
---------- Post added 08-27-2015 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-26-2015 at 11:58 PM ----------
Oh and in fact, people acting in their own selfish ways gets more things done. Saw a cool meme about this once, something like "Capitalism: Bread waits on you Socialism: You wait in the bread line"
( Click to show/hide )
Here's a short clip of Ayn Rand on Socialism and Dictatorship. Might open your eyes a bit guys, but this thread has almost derailed so ill end my arguments with this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6DlfnDfiNI
Last edited by david man45; 08-26-2015 at 11:25 PM..
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