Internet Gaming Bash of the Year 2014

[Dudebro]

I have a dumb question, how would those scores be wrong like that? Are we talking about manipulating the game to produce a score without actually playing it?

[CaptainJivePants]

I think Mr. Strain's post (#350) sums it up pretty well. The basic scoring submission rules of one player, one credit, one game, no continues, and being honest and accurate when recording a score, have been violated. It's not hard to double-check a score before submitting it, and you should because you want to preserve the integrity of yourself, your team, and the hobby overall. It's that simple to me. I have been intoxicated and successfully submitted scores for this tournament; I copied numbers from a snapshot to a textbox, checked them over, then clicked submit. It's not that hard. I can understand somebody screwing up a dip switch setting, not knowing which exploits are actually illegal, forgetting to record a game in some manner once in a while, or some technicality like loading a save state of the attract screen instead of resetting completely or killing off the current game. We had to pull at Moon Patrol score from the Epigroove team because a player submitted it without knowing the machine at Galloping Ghost is set three lives instead of two. Innocent mistake, we caught it quickly and apologized, the score was pulled, and no drama ensued. Of course, ignorance is not always a valid excuse, but what I see here is a wanton disregard for even the most basic of rules. That being said, I vote to just DQ all three users since they have proven themselves an untrustworthy source for scores, unless they can somehow quickly prove otherwise. We can sort out the full extent of the wrongdoing and punishment later, but I would like to end this nonsense and get back to having fun and playing games.

As was said before, there is no concrete evidence one way or another of whether or not multiple "players" are the same person. Honestly, I'm more shocked that I have seen no attempt to stream with the other players, show pictures, or anything. However, that has almost no bearing on my decision since it is circumstantial. I would, however, encourage the player(s) in question make a case for themselves to help clear their name for the future. If that is not possible, at least take responsibility for your actions and apologize.

[gastrainga]

Originally Posted by Dudebro

I have a dumb question, how would those scores be wrong like that? Are we talking about manipulating the game to produce a score without actually playing it?

No screenshots or INPs were provided for those "wrong" scores, and they also weren't submitted via RU. So I don't think there is a need to speculate if the game was manipulated.

There are a couple of possibilities:

1) Scores were just made up out of thin air and never occurred.
2) Scores occurred but were either written down incorrectly or entered wrong when submitting them for the tournament.

The Burnin' Rubber scores look to me like "made up" scores created by someone that didn't realize the ending 2-digits on the game are essentially a random 2-digit even number. Whether it was (1) or (2) that occurred is speculation though.

-George

[Thundarr]

well that sucks. this does not look good for team highscore he's one of our best players
i hope it's not true & he can prove himself but this does not look good 8(

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

off topic, but can anyone tell me how to put an avatar in my profile?

[Josephjo]

Originally Posted by Thundarr

well that sucks. this does not look good for team highscore he's one of our best players
i hope it's not true & he can prove himself but this does not look good 8(

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

off topic, but can anyone tell me how to put an avatar in my profile?

All 3 players have scored quite a few points.

As for an avatar

Click on Settings at the top of the page (below Retro Uprising logo)

Then Click on Edit my details

Edit Avatar is in the list on the left hand side.

[TBE]

I had a pretty long post written, but as i just got a PM from Kernzy he's gonna reply himself, i'll let him do just that.

1+2 is not = 4. There is no excuse for being sloppy, but it's still one hell of a step to call someone a cheater. This is the heart of the CAG community, cheating is not tolerated. Before anything is cleared i'd like to say that IF Kerny and his relatives can't come forward and prove their innocence, and that you guys find Kernzy a PROVEN cheater you can DQ the WHOLE team highscore.com/Atariage as i don't want anything to do with cheaters!

Reading all the inquries, i still have a hard time belive someone would cheat THAT OBVIOUS, and still be at place 4 overall with all scores counted.

/ TBE aka Sixx. "Captain" of team highscore.com/atariage.

[kernzy]

hey Gents,
I have just returned home from being away the last 2 evenings.
As you can imagine, this is a dire situation for me.
Some of you guys think I am a cheat. Holy cow. !
Even though in the scheme of things, this shouldn't be a big deal for someone, IT IS FOR ME!!!
I have been sending messages to and fro to Julian, but he is set in his ways that i am a cheat, and now I fear, and judging from a few comments, that this will rub off on you guys.
I said to Julian, that i feel i am fighting a losing battle, as that is how it seems. It is ludicrous.
Do i need to retype everything again? or have you guys read the opening comments properly?
All scores i submitted myself are TOTALLY legitimate. I saved INP's for almost all of them. So far, as far as I'm concerned, the scores entered by me and my boys were all to be beaten soon enough, apart from kung fu master, as i thought it was high enough to not be beaten. but now Julian says my INP don't work, further compounding his belief that I am cheating. If theres a game i can't or don't need to cheat on, it is kung fu master. see how crap this is turning out already?
As for their score submissions, I was not present for this at all times. I do not babysit grown men. Maybe i should have.?
They only use MAME when they come round my house. They don't use MAME at home. Pat is not on the internet, Dave is, but has 4 teenage daughters. You know the score. they have never recorded an INP in their life. They have never taken a screenshot of a game in their life. they simply wrote their scores down. They are not proper gamers like us.
As for scores entered incorrectly, it is written in the opening comments.
Pat entered the scores in a haphazard way, not caring too much about it, with a "that will do" attitude. Gaming night is a drinking night. think of that what you will.
The scores they entered were their FIRST submissions, not their last. they were to come and beat them again, with a bit more practice. However, learning of this debacle, they don't want anything more to do with it.
From having a few games for fun, and then hearing about this, their attitude is now: "i don't want to play silly games anymore". Which is sad for me, as i normally play alone. Now the only fun evenings i have concerning video games is trashed.
I'm sure everyone has been in, or know of a situation where someone was found out to have done wrong, and their attitude changes from being interested in it, to "screw it then". ? Thats whats happened here. They only took part because i asked them to. For a few nights it was good fun. A bit of camaraderie for a change. Now i doubt i will see them half as often.
Even though i feel attacked in this, i cannot deny the concern it has caused. Because if the shoe were on the other foot, i would be one of you guys, with questions. And i am glad it is taken as seriously as it is. I despise cheaters. My whole nature is against it.
If any of you guys know my online presence, you will know that i am compelled to route out evil, corruption and dishonour. To be on the receiving end, is a total madness.
I don't know how many characters i have for this message, so i will continue in the next message. please do not answer this yet!
tbc...

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

As for "cheating" on the whole.
I fail to see how entering what i consider "extremely low scores" as being cheating.
I also fail to see how entering scores for only a few games as cheating.
Surely, if my boys tried to cheat (even though nobody knows them and they don't care either way), they would have entered HIGH scores for ALL games, rather than low scores for the games they actually played?
They were to play again and beat these scores. as am I. as are you guys.
I have personally entered at least 3 or 4 scores for 19xx. Only the last highest score counts, not the first lowest score. they have entered their first lowest scores. It shouldn't have mattered. Yet, it does.
Now for the real accusation.
It is said that I am all 3 players. I am Kernzy, Patrick, and Dave1.
I fail to see how this would benefit me in any way whatsoever. What am i to achieve by pretending to be 3 people?
I don't even have time to enter scores for all the games as it is. I cannot learn how to play all these new games and enter scores that will make a difference in the scoreboard. why would i complicate things by trying to enter scores for 3 different people? I still have not entered scores for all games as of yet. I have refrained from playing any more, waiting for the outcome of this debacle.
If I, we, were cheating, surely we would have entered scores for all games already??
No, only a handful so far. some of my scores may be respectable, but Pat and Dave's scores are more or less bottom end low scores. who ever cheated by entering LOW SCORES?
I'd say: "nobody".
I expect to be dealt with seriously, but hope people realize that I will be taking the blame for what someone else did.
Realize, that all the scores entered so far, were 1st scores. they were to be beaten with some more practice. same as you guys. Time is limited, and they only visit on a limited basis. they have busy lives of their own.
To remove their scores and disqualify them, is totally understood. they have said so themselves. they want nothing more to do with it. To be called a cheat is something which changes one's opinion.
However, I am not them. I am me, and to disqualify me is another story.
I am not a cheat. I gain no benefit from cheating. For me to take the blame for other peoples mistakes is unfortunate. However, I can understand why i may need to.
I was told the original accusation came from DKF, and now continued by RU.
I was originally on team RU, who I consider to be the biggest and maybe best team in the competition.
I changed to play for Highscore.com. RU do not need me to win. RU have the best players i know about. I merely changed to help out the little guys. It is in my nature to help the underdogs.
If i wanted to win, i would have simply stayed on team RU.
what person, would leave what they consider the best team, and join the smallest team, and try to win? That is the worst formula for winning i can imagine.
I have been a member of their website for about 3 months. I know of nobody on there apart from D.B. Cooper, and allen staal (muscle and fitness). As far as i know, nobody on there is a top arcade player. no offence is intended if they are.
So, as far as this is going, i see the 2 top and biggest teams, picking on the smallest, maybe worst team. As though I personally maybe a threat. this also is ludicrous.
I am only average. I may be the best at 1 or 2 games, but the way the scoring goes, this will not make a difference.
It feels to me right now as an old fashioned witch hunt. As long as one person says I'm a witch, the whole neighbourhood will not only believe it, but will help burn me to death.
I don't know what else to say.
Because i agree with the suspicion, i will not take this personally, no matter how hard it may be.
But if someone directly calls me a cheat, well.....
I settle it on the screen.
I hope you guys understand what i am saying...?
I feel the need to apologize for what has happened, but there is no way i will apologize for what i have done. I have done nothing wrong. I have entered scores which are legitimate.
I have already (because of this) submitted over 10 INP files. if this is taken further, i will need to see INP's for all scores of all players. I have no choice but to fight fire with fire.
I hope you realize who i am , rather than who I am not.
all the best,
kernzy

[Dudebro]

I'm staying out of this except to say that Josephjo does not make an accusation like this lightly. If he's saying it then all signs must be pointing that way. From what I read it seems like he's going out of his way to let Kernzy prove otherwise too so it doesn't seems like an attack to me.

[Tails]

I agree with DB's opinion on staying out've it and what Jojo has said.

[Kugyince]

I think no matter how you look at it, Kernzy and his friends should have kept their inputs if they were not submitting on RU. That violates the rules of the contest.

I vote for removing any score that the INPs can not be verified with.

As for the whole "cheating" thing. Whatever. Just let it go. Maybe it was intentional, maybe they were typos. Lets all move on with our lives.

That's my vote.

[Barra]

Ok Paul, here we go:

You are a talented gamer. A well known one at that, and we DO respect the accomplishments you have achieved over the years.

What we want is for you to see this from our point of view. Your relatives have come from absolutely no-where, with no reference or talk of them from the past, anywhere. They are great at games that you yourself excel at. Now, they disappear without a trace, and want nothing to do with the "silly games" that they are apparently very skilled at.
You have offered no proof that they exist other than your word, and obviously we cannot take this as genuine proof that they exist - I hope you can see that.

We want nothing more than to resolve this situation. But to do that we need you to go out of your way to proof that we are wrong. If we are wrong, this is something you should have done automatically. This is why we are in the situation that we are.

As for the low scores, I dont consider the bomb jack scores to be low. And they do make a difference to the scoreboard.
And obviously, this does help your team having not 1 top player, but 3 on the same game. This pushes everyone elses scores down, which would clearly give your team an advantage.

tl;dr - We need to you see it from our point of view.
We know you are a good gamer. We dont know your cousin and brother. Prove they exist, and have been submitting those scores, and I (and possibly others) will eat our words. There are possible motives for this.

Thanks
Andrew

[Josephjo]

Paul

I'm certainly not doubting your skill on Kung Fu Master, all I said to you was the INP you sent for your 700k score wasn't the right one.

The issue here for me isn't so much the scores now, but the "Dave1 and Patrick" issue.

The only thing I will say to you is this - IF you decide not to prove that dave1 and Patrick exist and are capable of playing to the level you claim then we are at a stalemate. I can't force you to do anything. However if you decide not to, then either way Innocent or guilty, the issue of trust will hang over your name every time you play in the future whether it be on here or wherever.

I certainly wouldn't want that if it we me, but I can't speak for you. If you feel the same way then I recommend that you quickly do something about it. Words alone don't prove a thing, but if there are real people and close relatives then surely it wouldn't be that difficult to prove some other way? I hope and believe that they'd be willing to help you, given that your reputation is at stake.

I will be the first to apologise if you prove my doubts to be wrong.

I guess it's just now up to you (and Dave and Patrick of course.)

[TBE]

@Kernzy: There's only one way to do this properly: Make your brother and cousin come forward.

[kernzy]

hey guys,
I have supplied Julian with Dave's email, and i'm waiting for Pat to finish work.
I watched the kung fu master INP. it clearly desynch's. thats why my last 2 men stand still and die.

[Josephjo]

Based on what you're suspected of Paul -

How on earth would I know that the person I'm exchanging emails with isn't you?

Getting him to join here or pointing us to a digital footprint anywhere online e.g. Twitter, Facebook - anything! Where he had an online presence prior to say June 2014 would be a start.

Forgive me if I'm sounding negative, but I've spent most of the last week going round in circles.

If anyone who organised the tournament would like to take you up on the offer instead and email "Dave" please go ahead and contact Paul.

I've made my thoughts perfectly clear to you in private.

[gastrainga]

Originally Posted by kernzy

hey guys,
I watched the kung fu master INP. it clearly desynch's. thats why my last 2 men stand still and die.

No, it is clearly not a desync. It plays to 151,740 then ends That's just how long the input is. The file is much too small to be a 705,520 score game. When a file desyncs, replay of the input will continue to play and play after game over, even as it goes through the attract screen for a long time. You can also just look at the .inp file size and it is clearly too small for a 700K+ game, as it is a much smaller file than your 641,110 replay. You sent the wrong file.

Your earlier 641,110 replay plays back to the advertised score. It was recorded on July 4th at 10:17AM which matches the submission time of July 4th at 10:46AM.

I know you're certainly capable of a 705,520 score, but you didn't provide an .inp file for it.

-George

[Wolf]

can you please not drag this out any longer and make it clear if they are real or fake maybe do a livestream with them if you can't prove it by monday I will just dq you growing tired of this

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

all of their scores with no inps are being zeroed immediately

[kernzy]

this is totally hopeless.
Dave does not use twitter or facebook.
I have tried to give you contact information, then you go one step further. you ask for something he doesn't have.
What am I to do now?
I bet some people on this very site don't use twitter or facebook as well?
I can even ask the same of you Julian. your facebook account is not in your real name. How can you prove to me the same thing? You are here on RU, but where else? you use 3 different names, and you demand identities?
This is now very unfair. You are making me feel like an outcast.
Thanks a bunch.

As for the kungfum INP., you must be right. i must have sent and watched the wrong one. I'll see if i can locate it.
or should i not bother, now? as far as i can tell, I am about to get disqualified for the actions of someone else.
I hope you all revel in your wrongness.
I can't believe this is happening.

"even in the minority of one, the truth is still the truth" (gandhi)

[kernzy]

this, as far as i am aware, is the INP i sent in. i just watched it again.
It clearly desynch's at 151,000. everything is good up to that point, then, that is blatantly not me playing. last 2 lives a spent standing still, doing nothing. classic desync behaviour.

[QAOP Spaceman]

[kernzy]

as for live streaming Wolf, I am unable to do that.
If i could stream, you would have seen me on Twitch already. anyone who is a member of the facebook group "the MAME event, weekend warriors" will know, as i have asked on there for advice a few times on how to use OBS and gamecaster softwares. My upload speed is pathetic, around 0.35 megabytes and unable to stream a damn thing. you can ask the owner, Todd Lalonde, if you wish.
Every single avenue you ask for is a cul-de-sac.
you might as well throw a damn brick wall at my face.
Actually, Barra himself knows this. Andrew was kind enough to upload my bomb jack INP for me, where i beat the TG tournament record using 1 life.
Once again, I graciously thank him for this favour. Nobody else on the planet, has done such a thing for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWXxHNjy7QQ

[gastrainga]

Originally Posted by kernzy

this, as far as i am aware, is the INP i sent in. i just watched it again.
It clearly desynch's at 151,000. everything is good up to that point, then, that is blatantly not me playing. last 2 lives a spent standing still, doing nothing. classic desync behaviour.

Again, this isn't desync. This is the wrong INP. In desync the whole INP file is there, but when the desync occurs you quickly lose all your lives and the input keeps playing for a long time after game over since there is a lot more input that was recorded in the .inp file. For this file that isn't what happens. Just look at the file size of this inp compared to the one that plays back to 641,110. The inp in this file is 2.3MB long. The one for your 641,110 score is 11.2MB long.

In addition look at the date from this .inp. It is from 7/5 while your submission was done on 7/7 so it looks like this was an earlier recording you made.

-George

[kernzy]

now am i am confused George.
I see this:

[TodayIsForgotten]

That is information about the zip/rar. If you look at the .inp it will say july 5th at 4:48pm.

[kernzy]

somehow, i don't think the date is the problem here.
desynchronisation is the problem.
after uploading "hundreds" of INP's to MARP, I see this as classic desynch.
Game plays perfectly up to a point, then it goes pear shaped.
It even says "gameplay stopped" long before gameplay stops for me. I think debating this is pointless.
there is obviously a problem, which is unrelated to my gameplay.
you might as well tell Dean Saglio he can't get 700,000 on donkey kong.
i have supplied my highest scoring INP.
I am the uncrowned kung fu master champion. any one who plays kung fu master, knows for a fact, that Mike Sullivans record, is totally bogus.
he got 1.3 million within 1 year of the games release, and nobody in 30 years has managed to conquer it. back then, people were full of doodoo.