Deprived of Perfection [Archive]

samejamesbond

06-03-2010, 07:36 AM

Armando Galarragaof the Detroit Tigers nearly achieved what all true pitchers
strive for, a perfect game. But on the last play, the umpire made a mistake an
called the runner safe. Should the comissioner of baseball change this call to
make it a perfect game?

YouTube - Armando Galarraga's perfect game ruined on the last out

joz

06-03-2010, 08:06 AM

A perfect game would include having the umpires calling all the plays correctly, or at least in favor of the pitcher. The umpire is also a big part of the game and is as much a part of the game as the ball being pitched. If the umpire would have called it an "out" when it was actually "safe," should that also be reversed?

sabby

06-03-2010, 09:16 AM

The umpire missed the call, that is the "human element" of the game. It is really terrible for Galarraga that it happened to him. Seeing how this year in baseball has seen two perfect games and a no-hitter, it is already historic for pitchers.

Baseball needs to put more guidelines for instant replay, it would not even be discussed if the reviewable calls were expanded.

joz

06-03-2010, 09:39 AM

marxxx

06-03-2010, 09:45 AM

Gallaraga should be awarded his well earned perfect game.
if baseball had an effective instant replay, this wouldn't have happened. Had it not been for the bad umpire call, we would have a 3rd perfect game this season. Joyce(the umpire) admitted he screwed up the call, and the MLB acknowledges the call was a mistake. So now why not give
Gallaraga his perfect game?

sabby

06-03-2010, 09:49 AM

@ Sabby

Perhaps, but then it will take forever to finish a ball game if the umps are reviewing replays all the time. A normal ball game already takes 2 or 3 hours to end. The "human element" is vital to the sport. I think umpires should get their eyes checked more often instead.

How much longer are football and basketball games with instant replay? I realize that those are timed games but it works for them. Keep it to the discretion of the umpires, besides, it the players and coaches that cause the game to go on for ever, not the umpires.

joz

06-03-2010, 09:55 AM

How much longer are football and basketball games with instant replay? I realize that those are timed games but it works for them. Keep it to the discretion of the umpires, besides, it the players and coaches that cause the game to go on for ever, not the umpires.

Good point about the coaches and players stretching out the games. But I still don't think that replays should be used in baseball. What's to stop players and coaches to review every pitch just to make sure it actually was a strike? Would there be a limit to how many challenges a team can make? Actually I think I could accept a replay challenge in baseball if each team only gets three per game.

sabby

06-03-2010, 10:49 AM

Good point about the coaches and players stretching out the games. But I still don't think that replays should be used in baseball. What's to stop players and coaches to review every pitch just to make sure it actually was a strike? Would there be a limit to how many challenges a team can make? Actually I think I could accept a replay challenge in baseball if each team only gets three per game.

It wouldn't be practical to review balls and strikes. I think only using it for home run calls, close plays at the bases, and maybe if a player "traps" a ball. Other than that I don't think other plays should be reviewed. As for how many, I don't know. I like the football way of taking away a time out for a challenge that is not over turned, I don't know what you can take away from a team in baseball.

joz

06-03-2010, 10:52 AM

Maybe give the batting team an automatic out and the defence an automatic runner on base.

ZedIsDead

06-03-2010, 10:58 AM

Galarraga pitched a perfect game as far as I'm concerned. I don't care what MLB says, he earned it.

What do you guys think of this possible solution?
Practical Replay | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/practical-replay/)

joz

06-03-2010, 11:07 AM

sounds good

sabby

06-03-2010, 11:16 AM

What do you guys think of this possible solution?
Practical Replay | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/practical-replay/)

I think for the time being that would be the best solution. Fair/foul, balls/strikes should never be reviewed.

samejamesbond

06-03-2010, 12:01 PM

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 04:56 PM

It's way past time to get rid of the old way of doing things. This guy earned a perfect game and a bad call ruined it? What a load of crap. If they don't award him his due credit then they'll lose the respect of many fans. I give the pitcher and the ump a lot of credit for handling this so well but this is a crock. Baseball needs to add instant replay if they wanna continue to be taken seriously.

sabby

06-03-2010, 05:16 PM

Well looks like Bud Selig has decided not to overturn the call. I agree with his decision since almost every game has a blown call at one point or another. There were a couple of other blown calls in games last night, one that if reversed, would have changed the outcome of the game. If he (Selig) would have overturned the call, it would have opened a "Pandora's Box" of problems that baseball can not afford.

Baseball needs instant replay, it is that simple, hopefully this will open the eyes of the powers that be in baseball.

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 05:21 PM

Well looks like Bud Selig has decided not to overturn the call.
What a coward. So this guy(and his teammates) lose a hard earned perfect game because they don't wanna rock the boat? Garbage. I'm not a sports fan by any means but I just lost any respect I had for baseball.

sabby

06-03-2010, 05:51 PM

What a coward. So this guy(and his teammates) lose a hard earned perfect game because they don't wanna rock the boat? Garbage. I'm not a sports fan by any means but I just lost any respect I had for baseball.

So your saying the baseball should look into every bad call? Like I said, there were more than just that call that were wrong last night. Probably one in every game, the only reason this one was so publicized was because of the timing of it. If there were a hit in the game earlier this bad call would have been just a side note on ESPN or FOXSports.

Demon-Mask

06-03-2010, 05:57 PM

As dumb as the call may be, it happened, and the past should be left as-is.
The pitcher said he has no problem, and everybody makes mistakes.

Oh, and it's just a game. People take things to seriously.

Slime Slayer

06-03-2010, 06:02 PM

It's unfortunate that the guys perfect game was ruined, but bad calls are part of the game and always have been. I don't think that instant replays should ever be referred to in baseball, "kill the ump!" is part of the game.

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 06:12 PM

So your saying the baseball should look into every bad call?
No, don't they only review big plays in football with instant replay? I just think it's very unfair to rob this guy of his accomplishment because of an outdated tradition. Human beings are bad eye witnesses, this is a fact. To continue to allow human beings to make judgment calls in the face of video recording is just dumb. Who cares about the human element in this? Isn't it more important to give credit where credit is due?

If there were a hit in the game earlier this bad call would have been just a side note on ESPN or FOXSports.
But that's just it, there was no hit because the guy worked for it. Penalizing him for a bad call is just wrong and it should be overturned in light of how obviously the call was botched.

As dumb as the call may be, it happened, and the past should be left as-is.
But why? If everyone knows it's wrong and unfair why just let it be? All they have to do is fix the error so he gets credit.

Demon-Mask

06-03-2010, 06:17 PM

Right, but it is a game, and a dumb one at that. We can't undo mistakes in reality, so why allow it in a game?

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 06:20 PM

We can undo this kind of mistake because it's just some stat that can easily be adjusted to reflect the actual outcome. The higher ups in baseball are choosing to keep the call.

Demon-Mask

06-03-2010, 06:23 PM

It is stupid that they are choosing to keep the call. If they change it, then that's cool; if not, then big-freaking-deal, let's let the country get into turmoil over this.

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 06:28 PM

I'm not saying it's a big deal or that it even matters at all in the long run. I just hate seeing something so unfair just dismissed and excused because of some pointless tradition. It doesn't effect me at all really, I hardy ever watch sports and I care very little about it.

Demon-Mask

06-03-2010, 06:29 PM

I know, it doesn't effect me much either.
It is a stupid tradition.

Kugyince

06-03-2010, 06:31 PM

Even if the call is overturned, by the rules it still wouldn't end up as a perfect game but instead a no hitter. It could only be changed to an error.

While the call was bad, I do think it's correct to not go back and change it later on.

Dudebro

06-03-2010, 06:47 PM

I think an error should only count when it's done by a player. Official mistakes should be overturned(when possible) out of fairness to the players. Why should they be punished for human error out of their control?

Why are some of you so defensive about the human having the final call on stuff like this? Isn't it just unfair and wrong to knowingly screw a player out of something he earned and deserves? Football uses it and I think it makes things even better. The ref still makes the call but if they think it's questionable they review it. Why is that a problem for baseball?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I honestly don't know much about baseball or it's following.

Kugyince

06-03-2010, 06:51 PM

The current rulings in baseball is that replays are only allowed for judging if a homerun is fair or foul. Whether baseball should have instant replays or not is moot in this matter.

After the game is over I do not think calls should ever be changed. Like Sabbs mentioned, you are opening up a Pandora's Box.

sabby

06-04-2010, 09:30 AM

Why are some of you so defensive about the human having the final call on stuff like this? Isn't it just unfair and wrong to knowingly screw a player out of something he earned and deserves? Football uses it and I think it makes things even better. The ref still makes the call but if they think it's questionable they review it. Why is that a problem for baseball?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I honestly don't know much about baseball or it's following.

I have been a long time "fan" of baseball and it is the sport I have probably followed the most closely. I have wanted baseball to put in instant replay for at least 15 years. Unfortunately, it appears that baseball is accommodating for the "purist" and not using the wonderful advances that technology has presented which has caused for baseball to drop in popularity (another topic all together). Because plays at bases are not reviewable plays by baseball rules, what ever the umpire says goes. I think the link that ninjatiamat posted would be a step in the right direction.

Kong

06-04-2010, 12:40 PM

The MLB forced Youtube to delete the clip in the first post. How could it help them to delete baseball clips online. Do they think people wont buy tickets and merchandise because they can see highlights on YouTube. Dumb business move. If they only delete controversial clips then it is even dumber to think they can cover it up by attacking YouTube. They probably show the clips on their website and are trying to keep a monopoly. Still a bad move, internet video clips are not your bread and butter, fans are. Take care of them and give them what they want (access to every detail) and they will give you what you want (money for schwag).

I have never watched a baseball game so my opinion shouldn't count much but I think you shouldn't reverse the call. It is an all or nothing thing. Unless you want every call made to be questioned, you stick to the rule that the call on the field is the final answer. Too complicated otherwise.

jim5cents

06-04-2010, 02:01 PM

The call shouldn't be reversed and I'm glad it wasn't. The Pandora's Box argument was brought up. In the future, the umps would have zero credibility. But what about the past? If it was considered to change the call to give this kid a perfect game, why not go back in the past and change World Series outcomes.

In 1985, in the World Series between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Kansas City Royals, the Cardinals were up in the series 3-2 in game six and up in the 9th inning 1-0. There was a very similar play to this one when a runner who was clearly out was called safe. As result, of the base runner and extension of the inning, K.C. scored twice, won the game, and ultimately the series. If you are going to change bad calls to award perfect games, why not change that World Series outcome?

A replay system that I think would work is based on a points system. Each team as 25 points to be used during the season. Each replay is worth 1 point. Once you run out, you run out. This way, manager's aren't arguing every call and likely, they aren't even going to argue every bad call.

The ump screwed up and acknowledged his mistake and one can hope that he makes the effort to improve. The biggest tip of the hat goes to the pitcher, who not only sucked it up and got the next batter out, but has done nothing but shown class throughout this whole experience.

Did anyone see GM take care of the kid? Gave him a Corvette.

Kugyince

06-04-2010, 04:48 PM

Problem with the points system is that the points will be saved and thus spent for playoff games or at least only divisional series'.

Dudebro

06-04-2010, 10:22 PM

jim5cents

06-04-2010, 10:59 PM

@ten, i would say the points are for the regular season. For the postseason, you would get 2 points for the divisional series and 3 for the championship series and world series each.

Chuck Norris

06-05-2010, 12:37 AM

Jim Joyce was sad as heck and he apologized and he proved that it takes a big man to admit his mistakes and he was forgiven but Gallaraga got a Corvette out of it, shoot I'd take a free car over a blown perfect game any day!

Dudebro

06-05-2010, 02:21 AM

shoot I'd take a free car over a blown perfect game any day!
You think that's a fair trade? Doesn't this guy make an obscene amount anyways? If not he soon will after such a good showing and all the media coverage. Seems like he got a raw deal to me. Stats usually endure long after someone dies as a legacy. That car will be crap in like 2 years.

StarfoxFan2009

06-05-2010, 02:25 AM

I believe that they need to extend the instant replay so that they can review plays like that

Kugyince

06-05-2010, 03:43 AM

The bottomline is if they don't adopt instant reply it will hurt them in the long run. Anytime something like this comes up they'll go right back to how botched this play was. Be prepared to see it over and over again until they fix this nonsense.

Instant replay has been available for ~60 years now. You make it sound like it's something new they need to adopt to for survival. In a month this will be all be but forgotten by most fans.

Chuck Norris

06-05-2010, 10:50 AM

You think that's a fair trade? Doesn't this guy make an obscene amount anyways?

A free car is a free car DB and besides he was a good sport about and he even said "Everybody makes mistakes" Besides I'm sure there will be other oppourtunities.

Dudebro

06-05-2010, 09:20 PM

Instant replay has been available for ~60 years now. You make it sound like it's something new they need to adopt to for survival. In a month this will be all be but forgotten by most fans.
Maybe it will maybe it won't. I'm betting fans still remember this down the road and the instant replay debate will pick up. Like I said before though it doesn't effect me either way I'd just like to see it be fair.

jim5cents

06-06-2010, 09:11 AM

Besides I'm sure there will be other oppourtunities.

Not likely, in the history of major league baseball, there have only been a total 20 perfect games and 18 since 1881. Approxmiatly 391000 major league baseball games have been played meaning a perfect game is thrown at a ratio of 19550:1.

Chuck Norris

06-06-2010, 12:57 PM

Not likely, in the history of major league baseball, there have only been a total 20 perfect games and 18 since 1881. Approxmiatly 391000 major league baseball games have been played meaning a perfect game is thrown at a ratio of 19550:1.

Anything can happen Jim