RU Joe

I've seen this situation once already in a game I have called Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for the Playstation 2.
You play alternatively as both sides of an ongoing conflict between U.S./E.U. forces and the Chinese Army.
What's interesting about that game is how the cutscenes are like newscasts on the events and battles that you just played in the previous level, as seen from the opposing side's point of view.
That's one thing I really like about that game - it tells it just like it is about biased media reporting, and in particular U.S. media.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npusk4yNBK8"]YouTube - ‪Battlefield 2 Mission 4 (Part 2) (PS2)‬‏[/ame]

But here we have a new game from China where the 'bad guys' are the U.S. forces - and the youtube comments are as follows:

{video description}:
Training purposes?
Is the person who posted this trying to tell us something?

and here's the top two comments:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLY7GyxDmR4"]YouTube - PLA First Person Shooter: Glorious Mission - ?[/ame]

Gamers Target U.S. Troops in Chinese Military ‘Shooter’ | Danger Room | Wired.com

Dudebro

I have no problem with this, fair is fair.

Slime Slayer

Weird.. who the heck am I gonna argue with now?

RU Joe

Me?

I'm kidding, but what do you mean by that, SC?

Dudebro

Why does this surprise you? If you think that most major players on the world stage aren't doing this exact same thing you're being pretty naive. Even if you have no reason to think you'll be invading other countries it's always smart to prepare and train.

Slime Slayer

@JG, I meant DB is being rational about this situation, and he's usually my go to guy for arguments/debates. If you want to say it's wrong for them to make this game then we can argue.
@DB, I think his point is that it is specifically Americans, as opposed to any other country or even just an faceless army that represents any country.

RU Joe

No, I just thought it was an interesting admission to make given today's Militaristic atmosphere regarding Global events - and you must admit that the U.S. has pretty much appointed itself 'Sheriff of The World' where, along with Israel, they are 'more equal than others' and certain rules they enforce on the rest of us simply do not apply to them.
I know the average Joe has absolutely no part of this, but the media lumps people together in groups known as 'Nations' and all of a sudden it's US Vs. THEM.

In this instance what I'm getting at is the apparent attitude the media has regarding armament in general:
No one except certain people are to have any weapons at all.
This automatically creates an imbalance of power, and I find myself thinking of the documentary Innocents Betrayed: A History of Gun Control.
But this seems to now extend to a person's political view on things including video game scenarios/concepts and is getting frighteningly close to sounding like Thought Police.

Hence the premise of this thread: what it's really about is the idea that it's Ok to target people whom have been labeled 'evil' by Corporate media {people they tell us are with Al Queda or what have you} but heaven forbid anyone else should target the accusers' own forces - even in a game.

Dudebro

You say that like I'm normally irrational. Thanks for the backhanded insult.

Doesn't matter. The US has many enemies and they train to fight us all the time.



Well no I don't have to admit that. I know it's partially true but you're leaving out how the rest of the world usually stays out of everything and expects the US to get involved. The whole damned if you do damned if you don't thing. But that's not on topic really.

Slime Slayer

No prob.

alohaex

I see no problem with them makeing us the bad guys fair is fair. As said in your first post "We make them the bad guys so why not viceversa"

Slime Slayer

Here's another can of worms since everyone seems to agree on the subject.

Would it be appropriate for the US to ban this game from the shelves?

alohaex

Now that is a hard one would the first amendment of free speech come into effect or not

Dudebro

No it would be wrong to ban it. In fact it would be pretty hypocritical. Games like Counter Strike have one team as terrorists vs the US like good guys. That game is one of the best selling FPSs.

DrunkN

Now this is a question that really takes some theory.

If the idea of killing U.S. soldiers comes from the idea of U.S. invasion, then the game will probably seen as heavy Chinese propaganda, and could potentially be banned, however, if the game doesn't present an overall message that "The United States is evil", then it may be overlooked.

I don't think that the real problem is the fact that you shoot virtual U.S. soldiers, it's more about how U.S. relations are displayed.

Dudebro

Actually yeah it's more about the portrayal of the US. I can't understand a word of what's going in the video so it's hard to say but it probably is pretty hateful.

RU Joe

All I was saying is that the concept behind the game itself should be a universally acceptable thing, in that a given country's 'enemies' are subject to the point of view of that country's Government.
So of course in China's eyes the U.S. forces probably do look like the bad guys, given the political opposition and ongoing disputes between these two forces in real life.
Propaganda is what it is, basically.

But who cares?
It's just a game, and like DB said video games are commonly used to train troops nowadays {and was it S.O.C.O.M. that had actual S.E.A.L.S. playing online as part of a recruitment campaign?} and given the level of technology being deployed on the battlefield it comes as no surprise.
I recently saw a clip of a Soldier controlling a drone aircraft with what looked like a Playstation controller, so there you have it.

When it comes to the morality of this issue or how it may offend some people it is interesting to note that at the time I posted the video the 'dislikes' outnumbered the 'likes' by more than half.
So obviously some people are taking great offense to this game which portrays U.S. forces as the 'bad guys', but the really funny thing is that the game itself is said to be modeled on the U.S. Army's own 'America's Army' game!

Tails

Didn't another game recently do something with Nazi's causing Germany to ban that mission? Might've gotten the countries wrong but I remember it. Either way I don't care about it, I mean if that's the only way they can claim victory, let them.

elrod21

I personally see nothing wrong with this. As has already been stated, war has two sides and to each side the other is the enemy.

joz

I think it's fine. I don't think it would be cool of the US Gov. to ban it.

RU Joe

I believe the game was Return to Castle Wolfenstein for the PS2 {and probably more}, and even though you play against Nazi Germany, it was still banned for sale in Germany.
It's like someone said:
'No games with Nazis in them for Germany at all.'

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3jKww8qzM"]YouTube - ‪Return to Castle Wolfenstein (PS2) - 1-5 (Burial Chamber)‬‏[/ame]

Maybe that wasn't the one you were talking about but that's the ludicrous situation I remember.
I'm pretty sure most Germans wouldn't be insulted by that game scenario, but someone was kind enough to make darn sure they didn't come into contact with anything resembling Nazism, even in a game, for their own good.

So even if Germans want to play it {and why not?} they can't.
{although I suppose if you really wanted to you could order the game from somewhere else}

How would you Americans feel if you were banned from playing this new Chinese game where you play against U.S. forces? - just curious.

Mareeps

I'm pretty sure the rule in Germany is, "No references to the Nazis, unless it is for educational purposes."

On topic, i don't see what the big deal is, it's just a game, it's not like its going to cause the entire country to go to war with us.

Dudebro

Yeah it's something like that. I don't know the specifics but it's against the law to display or promote anything to do with Nazis in Germany. Can't say I blame them really.

I think I remember hearing that any games that allow you to play as Nazis or even has Nazi stuff in the backgrounds, like Wolfenstien, is banned unless it's edited to remove that stuff.

StarfoxFan2009

I don't see any reason for this to be an issue considering the amount of games over the years that portray other countries as villains

RU Joe

That is exactly the point of the whole thing, and like I pointed out the 'dislikes' outnumbered the 'likes' at the time I posted the video, so what does that tell you?
What it tells me is that some peoples' sense of National Pride has outweighed their common sense {by over half of the votes}; people are getting upset now that the FPS shoe is on the other foot, so to speak.

But let me try that shoe on for a second:
Would I be upset if a 'foreign' company made a game where you fight against and kill Canadian forces?
Or attack citizens in Canadian cities in an all - out assault or perhaps a terrorist attack?
Heck no, that don't bother Joe.

I have absolutely no pride in the Corporate Dictatorship of Canada at all.
{especially since last year's event in Toronto}
We fear our Police and so it stands to reason the Military should be feared even more.
So go ahead, mow down the Corporate enforcement body in a game, what does it matter to a mere serf like myself?

Am I supposed to automatically be upset just because I was born on this lump of dirt they named Canada?
That's all National Pride amounts to.

and after all, it's just a game!

Dudebro

Youtube is full of morons, nothing new. How do you think Beiber songs have like 50 million views but Beatle songs have like 5million? The userbase is largely under educated and very opinionated. It's a horrible combination.