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Old 06-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

Rumors about Sony's cloud gaming partnership now suggest that the service will be used for backwards compatibility.

http://feeds.ign.com/~r/ign/all/~3/4...gaming-service
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I predict this deal will define the next generation of gaming and put Sony on top.

Wii U is stupid and MS doesn't have any big plans that I know of.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I think it's a little early to decide if the Wii U will be good or bad.
It looks gimmicky, but we don't know until we actually play it.

As for the Playstation, backwards compatibility for the PS1 and PS2 is
awesome, I'm surprised they didn't do this sooner.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I'm thinking they will use the cloud for more than just backwards compatibility.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

Well obviously, we see what Apple is doing with Cloud and it's really
boosting the sales of their products.

I'm just talking about backwards compatability in general, they should have
done it a while ago, espcially concerning how many people bought PS1s and PS2s.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

What excatly will put them on top Kong? I certainly won't be backward compatibilty.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I skimmed the article at first and made several wrong assumptions.

I thought they were buying Onlive and that they would then use that to drive their next console.

I was totally wrong.

They are partnering with Gaikai for backwards compatibility of titles that they can get licenses for. Way lamer that what I originally envisioned.

So um, never mind.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

What makes you such a big fan of streaming, Kong? I can see the worth in non-interactive media, but I don't see the sense in streaming things that need actual program calculation/execution on a computer.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I see this as a way for sony to make you pay to play a game you already bought in the past for most people. Sure there will be the opportunity to play games you never did, but the people who want backwards compatibility want to play the games they already own.
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

Quote:
What makes you such a big fan of streaming, Kong?
Instant, continuous and free upgrades.
Cheap hardware.
Universal portability - all games can be played on nearly any computer, most phones, and special consoles.
Full back catalog - games don't become obsolete every generation.
Free trials - first level would probably always be free.
Subscription based fees - pay only for what you use. Pay for one game or 10 games or 1 hour or 1 month or any combination.
Great multilayer support.
Watch others play - every game can be easily recorded and broadcast.
Great universal high score support.
Easy to instantly apply patches and bug fixes.
Traveling and transferable save states, configs, trophies etc.
No unauthorized cheats.
And developers will love:
No piracy.
No used game sales.
Product placement, commercials and other advertisement will be easily added and tweaked.
Cheats and upgrades like better abilities and items or a different color outfit or a key to a secret room or tips and hints will be easily available for additional fees.
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Instant, continuous and free upgrades.
I'm not sure what exactly you meant by upgrades, but I'll have a guess.
Software updates per game are already done today (for free) on any console that has a competent online service (aka anything that isn't the Wii).

Hardware updates.....I'm pretty sure will not be free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Cheap hardware.
The definition of "cheap" is pretty subjective, but I think after the fallout of high prices of many launches in recent years (3DS, PS3), I think manufacturers will think twice about setting such high prices for their machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Universal portability - all games can be played on nearly any computer, most phones, and special consoles.
This is theoretically possible today on devices of the same family (think Apple "i" products, or Android devices) but you're assuming a lot of good will on the part of companies to not force you to buy your products on each device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Full back catalog - games don't become obsolete every generation.
I don't see how this would come about, especially if you were thinking hardware upgrades (new machines, CPU/GPU architecture, memory requirements, etc) either on the server side or client side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Free trials - first level would probably always be free.
This was done waaaaay long ago back in the DOS shareware era, and it's already done for every downloadable game for Xbox Live Arcade. Even the Wii has tried this (granted, for a very limited selection of titles, but that's more Nintendo's fault for having such a crap online network and being unwilling to develop any modern service).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Subscription based fees - pay only for what you use. Pay for one game or 10 games or 1 hour or 1 month or any combination.
I highly doubt companies will offer such flexibility with their plans- it will probably be a flat fee for monthly/yearly service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Great multilayer support.
I'll give you this one, because having input processed on the server side eliminates most if not all of the problems of game synchronization across different machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Watch others play - every game can be easily recorded and broadcast.
This is already starting to be done in the mainstream today with the rise of e-sports (Starcraft 2 and the billions of FPSs right now). Still, I do see how it could be simplified with streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Great universal high score support.
I don't see how this is different than today, most competent online networks already have this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Easy to instantly apply patches and bug fixes.
Already done today, and if you refuse the update the service simply locks you out from playing that title online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Traveling and transferable save states, configs, trophies etc.
Already done by keeping a local copy of such things, and sending updates to a network service (aka the cloud) when necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
No unauthorized cheats.
Maybe. But don't underestimate the ingenuity of cheaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
And developers will love:
No piracy.
If manufacturers stopped the BS practices of region locking, selective regional availability, digital rights management, limited installs, having to call to unlock installs, hidden terms of service, fine print, having to view advertisements and studio logos each time you boot up the game, crappy customer service, and other inconvenient practices and customer abuse in the name of "security" and "piracy" I'm sure this would go down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
No used game sales.
Already happening with one time use codes, will probably end up implemented in the next round of consoles, and digital media is already non-resellable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Product placement, commercials and other advertisement will be easily added and tweaked.
You can do that already, but what customer wants that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kong View Post
Cheats and upgrades like better abilities and items or a different color outfit or a key to a secret room or tips and hints will be easily available for additional fees.
This already happens.........it's called DLC .
See: Activision, Capcom, EA for the worst offenders.
Although, many other games have it more sensibly implemented.


TL;DR:
-Most of the things you mentioned are already implemented or close to being done so today.

-You're assuming ideal companies that have the goodwill to offer deals for the customer.........lol. Based on this post, you already seem to have concerns about the intangible nature of digital downloads and corporate will to do right by the customer. What makes you think streaming will be different?

-In exchange for all of those features, you're giving up complete control of your product. Purists of physical media will argue this has already happened, but streaming eliminates even the local copy of a file that you can download, delete, redownload, and boot up at your leisure. Do you really want this?
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

@upgrades
I mean both software and hardware (video, memory, cpu but not controllers). And I don't mean just software updates. I mean being able to upgrade from the equivalent of Windows 7 to Windows 8 without the user taking any action.

And by free I mean the cost to the developer to give the upgrade to the customer is nearly free or pure profit. Whether they choose to charge the same price and pocket all the money or pass the savings onto the consumer would be up to them.

@cheap hardware. I mean you can run a PS3 and an XBOX 360 and a Wii game all at the same time on any device capable of playing 3 youtube videos at the same time. Obviously you would rarely want to play 3 games at the same time so a device that can handle a single youtube video, such as nearly any modern phone, could play the most advanced game. That is very cheap hardware. Most phones are free with a 2 year subscription. Once games move fully to the cloud I would expect the same - free hardware with a 2 year service subscription.

Quote:
but you're assuming a lot of good will on the part of companies to not force you to buy your products on each device.
No, I am expecting a monopoly and for at least 2 console lines to collapse.

@Full back catalog - Partially I meant emulation along the lines of the virtual console for games that are already old. Like with VC there will be licensing issues. But mainly I meant future tense. My assumption is that once games are in the cloud they will remain in the cloud and that the central service will never retire games. Games released on day one would be just as easily available on the very last day and I am assuming there would be multiple decades in between those days. I am making an assumption of good will and smart managers on this. They likely would screw this up.

Quote:
it's already done for every downloadable game for Xbox Live Arcade.
But not for every game. It isn't anything new, it just would become the standard.

Quote:
I highly doubt companies will offer such flexibility with their plans- it will probably be a flat fee for monthly/yearly service.
I disagree. But doesn't matter. We are both guessing.

Quote:
Quote:
Great universal high score support.
I don't see how this is different than today, most competent online networks already have this.
I'm sure some games/systems do a great job with this. I am assuming it is not yet implemented well on every game/system. I think having everything centralized and online will make it better but there might not be much room for improvement here.

Quote:
Already done today, and if you refuse the update the service simply locks you out from playing that title online.
Applying them directly server side is still easier and more efficient than anything involving the client side.


Quote:
Maybe. But don't underestimate the ingenuity of cheaters.
Some cheats would be possible, such as exploiting glitches and having a controller that has programmed combos or turbo. But it should be much easier to handle and fix the majority of cheats when all the user has control over are the key inputs.

@Piracy, you are probably right, but they will never volunteer to do that and they will jump at any opportunity to limit user control and to switch from physical possession to a intangible subscription.

Quote:
This already happens.........it's called DLC .
I am thinking it would be easier for developers. With current DLC the developer typically needs to plan ahead and know what type of DLC they might add one day and add the hooks for the DLC in the physical game. With a pure cloud they wouldn't have to plan ahead as much.

Quote:
-Most of the things you mentioned are already implemented or close to being done so today.
I think the one's that could be implemented current gen will be improved. The ones that can not be implemented today are huge.

I'm not trying to say this would be great for gamers. It would have its ups and downs. I don't buy modern games though so I would just be a nerdy outsider and from a technical stand point it would be interesting.


Quote:
In exchange for all of those features, you're giving up complete control of your product.
I think the direction we are going, you will be giving up the control no matter what.

Comments
  
  Great rebuttal
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

Great reply, +1.

Quote:
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I think the direction we are going, you will be giving up the control no matter what.
I guess this is my main issue with future tech development, this will be a hard thing for me to swallow.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

I don't like where the industry is going. Not at all really.
Yes, the cloud is a great idea, but it will probably completely eradicate any semblance of "rights" or "control" that the consumer has.
Still, it has it's advantages, especially for the developers/publishers.

Whatever, I don't buy new games anyway.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

This is a really interesting topic, I'm enjoying seeing people's views on this. I don't really buy new games (still on my 10 year old PS2) because I don't want to end up playing online games against people all the time - I'd never get anything done!

I have, however, tried a couple of MMORPGs and notice that there's a problem with the model for pure gamers. What I have noticed is that you don't necessarily get rewarded for being a good or imaginative player. You tend to see success = payment. If this model spreads to console-style gaming on the cloud then it's the worst thing I can ever imagine happening to the industry. I much prefer console-based gaming offline (or retro console games online) anyway.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

MMORPGs are not a good example. They are partly in the cloud but not completely.

Play on-demand video games over the internet - OnLive.com. is the only real example right now and maybe Gaikai Open Cloud Gaming Platform | Cloud Video Games And Software Applications but I don't know much about them.

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Old 06-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Is Sony’s Cloud Partnership for PS2 and PS1 Games?

That's been a long term change in the game's industry fueled by a lot of things, the biggest factor being that there is no longer any need to have any difficulty in games anymore, and to be honest there is no real demand for them either unfortunately.
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