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Old 08-01-2011, 06:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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This is pretty nuts

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4]‪Little Australian games company invents technology 100,000 times better [HD]‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

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  Most impressive, good find.
  
  Keep us posted
  
  simply amazing
  
  I like this.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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re: This is pretty nuts

It looks real, real good, but it seems like if it's incorporated into games, that it will run really slow, especially on computers that have slow processors or even decent ones.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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re: This is pretty nuts

Wow! Really cool!
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Nice Find.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

I gotta admit I'm skeptical but if it's true then it's an awesome step forward for gaming. With this kind of technology they can finally faithfully render faces and hair. The results would be creepy I imagine, so lifelike.
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

I'm a tad skeptical myself, I guess the idea is that these guys have somehow found a way to eliminate rendering anything not directly on the screen, so the maximum amount of rendering they need to do is your screen resolution.

---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------

I don't even know what I just said but it somehow makes sense.
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Yeah! More realism in our video games!
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

It's funny how you try to make graphical improvements sound like a bad thing.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenser View Post
Yeah! More realism in our video games!
Aside from that, this could open a lot of potential fresh and exiting games. Off the top of my head picture a game where you can manipulate the size of your character to varying degrees, if you come to some monsters that are too tough to beat, you shrink down and see if the enemies under the canopy of grass are any easier. Need to get into the belly of the king to save someone? Shink down and hide in a bubble of his ale.

Okay so not the best of ideas, but put it in the hands of the right designer and you could have something epic.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

No we should go back to when games were better and never move forward!

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Old 08-02-2011, 10:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

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Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
No we should go back to when games were better and never move forward!

Ungh! Why on earth would you want that?

I guess you don't really need anything more than that when a quarter of the screen is covered up with the same retread of a gun in every single game you play.




Anyways, realism =/= graphical fidelity. Thanks for the broad assumption though.
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Quote:
I guess you don't really need anything more than that when a quarter of the screen is covered up with the same retread of a gun in every single game you play.
Sometimes it's a sword and shield.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Before I begin:

1 megabyte (MB) = 1,048,576 bytes
1 gigabyte (GB) = 1,073,741,824 bytes
1 terabyte (TB) = 1,099,511,627,776 bytes

This is completely unrealistic.

He quotes 21 trillion, 62 billion, 352 million, 435 million polygons on that island. Or:

21,062,352,435 polygons

Assuming each of those polygons takes 1 byte of memory (highly unrealistic and idealistic) that is over 21 terabytes of data. Or rather, twelve 2 TB hard drives.

Of course, you can't store data for execution on the hard drive, you have to store them on random access memory. The console with the highest RAM right now (Xbox 360) has 512MB. The most high end home PCs have 16GB.

Also, they present a completely static image that is not animated at all, most likely rendered in advance. And that is with static lighting and shadows, and no fog. And only at 20fps. I highly doubt they can achieve a 300% performance boost and then keep it for game conditions (60fps, fast movement, animation, everything else...).

Also, polygons are connected together, so it is easy to subject groups of polygons to 3D transformations. Animating a thing made of independent free floating 'atoms' would require so much more effort, such as deciding which atoms to move, and all of the required 3D math on scales way larger than any polygon based games today.

Sorry, but not believing this for a second as far as gaming is concerned.

Comments
  
  Great post Seahawk!
  
  I'm skeptical too.
  
  One byte per polygon? What is the magic of which you speak?
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

I agree with you Seahawk for the most part. I'd like to see this, but it does seem unrealistic.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

@SH, Do you think that they actually beleive they are on to something? Or are they just wasting everybody's time, including their own, purposly?
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevencassidy13 View Post
@SH, Do you think that they actually believe they are on to something? Or are they just wasting everybody's time, including their own, purposely?
It is always possible that they have the real deal and it will blow everyone away with it.

However just one what I wrote above is enough to make me doubt it. He made a point, that rendering atoms (also called 'voxel rendering' or 'volume rendering') is used in medical fields (ultrasounds, MRI scans, etc). However, those systems are spending ALL resources on the visualizations and not on game-y things (collision detections, color/lighting, audio output, etc).

Aside from what I wrote before, note that the island is made of very similar objects and colors. I bet they have a lot of backend code that is simply cloning objects and placing them in the view. That scene at 1:29 looks like they plugged in a single 3D model (with no textures and flat colors) into a fractal generator. Meanwhile look how the 'inferior' polygon games have much nicer color and much more varied environments around.

Everything the narrator said is true, but he is very careful not to mention any disadvantages to their system. I bet they spend an entire year creating that island and are now making a pitch for funding or something. This is not anything new, and based on what I've written I refuse to believe this is real for gaming.
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Infinite resolution is a pretty huge claim; are they planning on using Quantum Computers?

Maybe they're trying to tell us something, like when ID made Doom 3 beyond what was then industry standards for game graphics capabilities = it was made for systems that did not exist at the time.
I always thought that was really cool.

But regarding this new game, could this be another Atari Jaguar? - the console that was advertised as having 64 bits back in the 16 bit era?
{but which was not truly a 64 bit machine}
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Yep, even for animating 3d models with polygons require some hardcore geaometry which needs a high frequency processing unit. Now imagine the geometry needed for all those atoms...
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:46 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
He quotes 21 trillion, 62 billion, 352 million, 435 million thousand polygons on that island. Or:

21,062,352,435 polygons
21,062,352,435,000

While he does claim that id what is on the island the belief is that they are only rendering what is on screen at any given time.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

Rendering everything within your resolution, then having it exit memory and have to re-enter memory again is going to be pretty slow.

It's a cool idea in theory, but not exactly realistic. At least not with today's computers.

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Old 08-05-2011, 03:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

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Originally Posted by Tenser View Post
While he does claim that id what is on the island the belief is that they are only rendering what is on screen at any given time.
Yes, but they still have to remain in memory so that you can bring them back on screen at any time. And as Demon-Mask said, transfers between memory and hard disks are SLOW.

Even if transfers were instant, there are 21 trillion particles on that 1 km² island.
Even viewing just 1m² (1/1,000,000) of that island (assuming an even distribution, and with trees and statues it's not), its 21 million particles to be stored, and as I said before it will take more than 1 byte to store them (x,y,z location, color, type, and more) resulting in massive memory overhead that is way too much for game consoles and PCs today.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

You guys make a solid case against this claim, from what I can understand of it all. Hopefully it's a step forward in this technology regardless of how well it lives up to the hype.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

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Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
Even if transfers were instant, there are 21 trillion particles on that 1 km² island.
Even viewing just 1m² (1/1,000,000) of that island (assuming an even distribution, and with trees and statues it's not), its 21 million particles to be stored
Yes but the idea is that it maxes out at your screen resolution, for example my laptop screen has 1,024,000 dots on it. So that would be the absolute maximum amont of atoms being processed.

Don't make fun of me if I'm missing something obvious, I know very little about this stuff.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: This is pretty nuts

@SC13: You are missing the z-axis.
This technology is intended to render things in three-dimensional space: length, width and depth.
Your monitor only has length and width. The depth would be based on the distance you were able to see, so it renders your monitors resolution multiplied by the distance you can see inward. Think of it this way, pretend your monitor's resolution is 1,000 x 1,000. That renders 1,000,000 dots. Now, that is only the X-axis and Y-axis. Let's assume we give our Doomguy the ability to see 1,000 dots inward. Multiply that 1,000 dots Doomguy can see inward, by the monitor's length and width. This is 1,000,000,000 dots. Every atom in that volume of 1,000,000,000 dots must be rendered, and they will often be moving, as will where that 1,000,000,000 dots of volume exist. Now, there will not be that many atoms in that area, but there is still going to be a ton of atoms.

It isn't that obvious of something to miss, the z-axis, but it is something large.
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