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Old 01-03-2012, 06:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Here's something that I was mulling over following the brawler series. I had previously mentioned that SNK had not announced a new Metal Slug game following the 3D version, especially not one bringing the experience back to 2D where it belonged. I had hoped that the studio was secretly working on new HD sprites using the same technology they exploited in the King of Fighters XII and XIII series.



Then reality hit me. SNK-Playmore does not have the time, money or resources required to make an HD Metal Slug experience. The title features far more 2D animations than just about any other game ever made. It would take an animation giant like Disney or Studio Ghibli to turnaround the thousands of frames of animations used in each game, especially in high definition. Just because the hand-drawn Metal Slug might not return does not mean that the game might not return to its 2D roots.

Capcom had learned that fans of a genre and a universe were also passionate about preserving the gameplay. Take for example the remake of Bionic Commando. When the game went full 3D it did not impress gamers or reviewers and failed to meet expectations for the sales dept. Yet the remake of the original 2D Nintendo version, with updated 3D graphics wowed audiences. The simple but memorable control scheme, level designs and characters all won out over the bigger-budget remake.



The 2.5D Bionic Commando Rearmed sold 130,000 units in its first week or release, whereas the 3D remake of Bionic Commando sold a total of 27,000 units in its first month during the same calendar year. The gamers had spoken Some experiences did not translate well to 3D no matter how original the plot or mechanics were planned out A similar thing could be said of Metal Slug 3D. The game featured all the familiar characters, locations and even vehicles, however the gameplay from the original was lacking. If SNK-Playmore wanted to reboot the franchise while updating the graphics technology and shortening the development cycle then they should learn from Capcom.

A 2.5D version of Metal Slug could preserve the familiar side-scrolling run-and-gun adventures of the 2D title but allow for even more dynamic and breathtaking backgrounds to be rendered, illuminated and textured in 3D. These types of experiences work well on PSN and XBLA services. SNK-Playmore could release a series of downloadable adventures, or "missions" and cut out the retail stores altogether, taking the game directly to the people. That's what I think anyhow. Would you play a 2.5D version of Metal Slug?



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Old 01-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

2.5D isn't impressive. 2.5D isn't pretty.

It's just a way for devs to plug in their latest polygonal engines and call the gameplay 'classic', all while entirely gutting the look of the game.

2.5D style needs to die and never come back.

Comments
  
  How true.
  
  i agree
  
  I disagree completely.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

2.5D Works great with fighters like Super Smash Bros and Street Fighter.
Other games, not so much.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Metal Slug is only cool because of it's awesome 2d animation.

@SJB, It doesnt work for SF, nor M VS. C at all i.m.o. It worked decently for Mega Man though, not suprising because there is nothing organic in that game.

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Old 01-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

I have to disagree about 2.5. I think it is a good way of remaking an older game. It doesn't need to be in every game but there's no reason to bash it like it's ruining anything when it's just adding a layer of depth to the game. Like Bionic Commando, I think Rearmed looks good but the other remake in 3D was a tragic choice.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
just adding a layer of depth to the game.
Elaborate.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

I don't mean content I meant literal depth like making the levels feel more alive.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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I don't mean content I meant literal depth like making the levels feel more alive.
I feel the exact oppisite is true, it makes everything feel less alive, very robotic.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

I don't get that. How can adding more detail and depth to the background make it less alive compared to a flat image?
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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I don't get that. How can adding more detail and depth to the background make it less alive compared to a flat image?
Because everything moves at a robotic pace. It isn't so much alive in a literal sense, it more alive like as is vibrant, or attractive. For example take a game like Muramasa, Odin Sphere, the Metroidvanias... give them a 2.5d "makeover" and they immediately loose their appeal.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Seems like it's just a matter of you preferring old school 2d over everything else. Not trying to pick a fight just being honest. I have no problem admitting I don't get it though.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
I don't get that. How can adding more detail and depth to the background make it less alive compared to a flat image?
I share Steven's thoughts. I think that a 3d environment creates a more room-simulating atmosphere. Likewise, the player becomes more aware that their surroundings are ultimately but walls and floors, with a few props to liven up the place. In a sprite based flat environment, you don't even really consider the 3rd dimension and you feel that the area you maneuver through is not one that reminds you of your own.

Imagine if you will: you are in a private indoor race track that consists of one lane over a stretch of a few kilometers. You are free to drive as fast as you want. Eventually, another indoor track is built that is exclusive to you, and this one contains two lanes. You can not go into the second lane, but it adds more depth. You quickly realize that this is more or less like driving down a two way road, and you get less of the rush than when you did with just the single lane path.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

I guess I'm thinking of it like the slider on the 3DS. The minimum is flat and the max is 3D. To me moving the slider makes the game feel more "real".
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

@DN, right
@DB, It's got nothing to do with old school:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKl0o3B4Sr4]Muramasa: The Demon Blade (Wii) Trailer - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
I guess I'm thinking of it like the slider on the 3DS. The minimum is flat and the max is 3D. To me moving the slider makes the game feel more "real".
To be honest, it's the same reason that I feel everyone complained about FF XIII being linear.

If we made FF IV into a graphic heavy version of the same game, with a camera behind the shoulder and rotatable, would you basically feel like you were walking down a straight path that was put in front of you, only to turn a corner and have the option to stroll down a little bit to open a chest? I think that for this reason, having a game be 2.5d really requires a lot of use of that background as far as game play goes, other wise it's like taking a hot and frightful date to a war zone. Sure it may sound like it will look nicer for it, but does it ever add to anything in the right way?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Well I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the example in the first post shows what I'm talking about, NES Bionic Command is great but adding the 2.5 makes it look cooler. Going full 3d ruined it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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Well I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the example in the first post shows what I'm talking about, NES Bionic Command is great but adding the 2.5 makes it look cooler. Going full 3d ruined it.
Well Hell, I think Bionic Commando may have pulled it off correctly judging by the image. It looks to me that the backgrounds are more ambient and in the distance (away from attention), giving you a classic feeling of here and now that's crucial to the game style.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

That's the kind of example I'm talking about. Isn't Paper Mario also an example of 2.5?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
That's the kind of example I'm talking about. Isn't Paper Mario also an example of 2.5?
I would say that's it's more similar to a standard grid RPG, but it's a big example of a game where the background is always more important that it appears to be.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

2.5D isn't a bad thing, it works well in some cases, and poorly in others.
I like 2.5D in New Super Mario Bros.
I disliked 2.5D in Castlevania: Dracula X Chronicles (Rondo of Blood).

Separate from either of these is Metal Slug. I don't think Metal Slug would look good in 2.5D. It would look terrible, in fact. There is so much detail put into the sprites and backgrounds. There was always so much going on in the backgrounds. I don't think they'd put that much effort into the little graphical details that make it go from looking good to great if they put it into 2.5D. Look at the screenshot of Metal Slug 3D vs. the screenshot of plain old Metal Slug, Metal Slug 3D looks incredibly bland in comparison. So much of Metal Slug's appeal to me is stylistic, it just looks so damn good, on top of having great gameplay. Changing it to 2.5D would alter the stylistic elements.
That, and I don't think the bullets would look good in 2.5D, and it wouldn't look natural if they were the only sprites.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:45 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

The slug examples above are good, look how much more appealing the bg is on the right, even DB can't deny this.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

The one on the left is 3D I thought?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:48 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

Or the vehicles, the vehicle look so much cooler on the right.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

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The slug examples above are good, look how much more appealing the bg is on the right, even DB can't deny this.
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Originally Posted by Demon-Mask View Post
Or the vehicles, the vehicle look so much cooler on the right.


Obviously 3d games didn't look great when things were still building and technologies developing, it would be like comparing 2004 XBOX graphics to early 1980's arcade games. Do you really think that those tanks would be what we would get if we saw a 3d metal slug game today?

That being said, I do think that the style of the game is better suited for 2d shooting.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Could Metal Slug Work in 2.5D?

The 2d graphics would be way more advanced too, what's your point?

---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post
The one on the left is 3D I thought?
See I know you don't actually beleive this, your pullin a pineapple here.
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