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Old 04-12-2018, 09:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

So it's been decided that Billy Mitchell's records have been declared unfair due to the use of an 'emulator' and has gotten him banned and stripped. Meaning even his Pac-Man score has been rendered invalid.

Famed Donkey Kong Player Stripped of High Scores, Banned From Competition ? Variety
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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So it's been decided that Billy Mitchell's records have been declared unfair due to the use of an 'emulator' and has gotten him banned and stripped. Meaning even his Pac-Man score has been rendered invalid.

Famed Donkey Kong Player Stripped of High Scores, Banned From Competition ? Variety
It's a bit odd to me. If he genuinely cheated, I guess that should be addressed, but saying it can't be legal because an emulator was used is silly. In the next few years, the arcade cabs are going to decrease to a point where emus will be the only option to play these classic games. I support that there should be a way to enforce a rule or use a locked emulator program like the Great and Powerful Kong created here, but to outlaw emus in general is outdated.

Speaking of outdated, I'm surprised that TG even exists anymore.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

Its just outright crazy to me, I will get the lowdown though
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

@Winnebagel their main beef with emulators is that they process faster than the original hardware, plus they can mask the fact they were cheating. Which is what Mitchell was accused of.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

Hopefully I can bring him here!
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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@Winnebagel their main beef with emulators is that they process faster than the original hardware, plus they can mask the fact they were cheating. Which is what Mitchell was accused of.
I understand what they are saying. The thing is, with properly monitored submissions, emulators should be allowed. Kong created a program that uses emulators, yet locks the settings so they can not be changed from the default.

Mitchell may have cheated, but the articles I'm seeing online have comments from people who have no idea how emulators work and acting like Billy should be burned at the stake. To me, it's just another sign that Twin Galaxies is nearing the end of its life cycle.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

And I believe some of it was save states and other things. I think the one thing you can't look past is if it was really done on an emulator, and Billy swore for years it was arcade, he was obviously deceiving everyone on purpose.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

It seems like TG is doing serious damage control to avoid losing credibility. How can people trust them if they let this go on for so long?
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

The evil has been defeated.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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Originally Posted by krehztim View Post
And I believe some of it was save states and other things. I think the one thing you can't look past is if it was really done on an emulator, and Billy swore for years it was arcade, he was obviously deceiving everyone on purpose.
That's a good point if he said that. I meant that I think it's time for the ban on emulators to end (as long as the settings are verified in the video submission).
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

Wes Copeland pointed out that Billy scored an overly large amount of points from DK blue barrel / fireball / pie smashes, and some people (including myself) looked at the breakdown of 300/500/800 point smashes on the various gameplay footage. The expected percentages of 300/500/800 points are known from the code, and as far as I know Billy scored above average (and sometimes way above average) on every breakdown of barrels / fireballs / pies on each of his 1m+ DK submissions. The odds of Billy having such luck playing fairly on an actual DK arcade machine are very very low. Given that he appears to have used MAME, it appears that he has used save-states until he managed to achieved the higher scores he wanted to on each level. The excess 800 point smashes betray him. Apparently he had a library of tapes, assumedly MAME, so he could simply grab whatever score he wanted and submit it.

I followed the dispute since early Feb, I have no problems with RU and WolfMAME, but Billy Mitchell submitted MAME footage and claimed it was direct feed from a DK machine. His DK Junior high score game also looks like MAME footage. Billy even admitted that the infamous "Boomer PCB swap" video was staged (after it was pointed out that a DK Junior board was 'swapped' for a DK Junior board). Even the 'engineer' Billy enlisted to help him out concluded that Billy's footage was not from a genuine DK arcade machine.

I was very impressed with the way Jace Hall, current TG owner, handled things. He seems quite keen to have dodgy scores carefully examined and removed from the TG scoreboard if needed.

Billy Mitchell clearly cheated on several games and openly lied about it whilst abusing his privileged position with TG (he helped finance TG!) to make things difficult for his competition. F*** him and his fake high scores I reckon.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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Originally Posted by RevJ View Post
I followed the dispute since early Feb, I have no problems with RU and WolfMAME, but Billy Mitchell submitted MAME footage and claimed it was direct feed from a DK machine. His DK Junior high score game also looks like MAME footage. Billy even admitted that the infamous "Boomer PCB swap" video was staged (after it was pointed out that a DK Junior board was 'swapped' for a DK Junior board). Even the 'engineer' Billy enlisted to help him out concluded that Billy's footage was not from a genuine DK arcade machine.
This part I 100% agree with. If he lied about that, then he should experience the consequences. He must have really cared about that score if he was willing to enlist an engineer to help stage that. If true, that's pretty pathetic.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

I might have confused things by referring to the engineer.

Billy claims that he taped 'live' DK performances by using a direct feed from a DK arcade machine through a converter to a VHS video recorder. But as we know his gameplay footage looks like MAME. I imagine just created at home with no overly special gear required.

When the TG dispute brought up the MAME-like images, Billy got one of his 'engineer' friends (possibly now an ex-friend) called Carlos to demonstrate how the alleged setup of arcade machine to video could produce MAME-like images (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gAPW9IQpU ). The YouTube video is bit of a stuff-up really, it doesn't show any MAME-like footage and only adds further proof of Billy's guilt.

Carlos later stated that his findings were that Billy Mitchell's footage was NOT from a genuine unmodified DK arcade PCB.

TG totally does accept MAME scores, but they need to be recorded with WolfMAME with the inp/wlf file/s provided. AND they are tracked separately as MAME, not actual arcade. It would make sense for TG to accept RU gameplay, however for RU arcade gameplay it's not a Wolf version of MAME under the hood here.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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The YouTube video is bit of a stuff-up really, it doesn't show any MAME-like footage and only adds further proof of Billy's guilt.

Carlos later stated that his findings were that Billy Mitchell's footage was NOT from a genuine unmodified DK arcade PCB.

TG totally does accept MAME scores, but they need to be recorded with WolfMAME with the inp/wlf file/s provided. AND they are tracked separately as MAME, not actual arcade. It would make sense for TG to accept RU gameplay, however for RU arcade gameplay it's not a Wolf version of MAME under the hood here.
That amazes me. When I used to have time, I used to enjoy competing for scores and world records, but man if he went to all of that just for a score, it seems to be a phenomenal waste of time. It reminds me of a guy from that KoK documentary who basically said he regretted putting so much of his life into just competing for scores and missing out on a lot of other things in life.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

I was pretty shocked at the whole thing. I always thought Billy was an extreme narcissist, and an overall dink, but I had never suspected him of being a cheat. He goes on and on with his motivational speeches and stuff... I don't get how someone is capable of feeling good about themselves when they cheat. I cheated on a game here long ago and it just ate at me until I finally came clean to get it off my chest. (To be clear, I inadvertently cheated and when I found out months later, I kept quiet about it). Anyway, I can't live like that, takes all kinds I guess.

Last night I watched a video that I can't find today. It was Richie Knucklez in his car driving to meet Billy Mitchell, and they were supposedly going to be making a statement sometime this weekend. Should be interesting to hear what he says.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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Originally Posted by Slime Slayer View Post
I was pretty shocked at the whole thing. I always thought Billy was an extreme narcissist, and an overall dink, but I had never suspected him of being a cheat. He goes on and on with his motivational speeches and stuff... I don't get how someone is capable of feeling good about themselves when they cheat. I cheated on a game here long ago and it just ate at me until I finally came clean to get it off my chest. (To be clear, I inadvertently cheated and when I found out months later, I kept quiet about it). Anyway, I can't live like that, takes all kinds I guess.

Last night I watched a video that I can't find today. It was Richie Knucklez in his car driving to meet Billy Mitchell, and they were supposedly going to be making a statement sometime this weekend. Should be interesting to hear what he says.
Someone uploaded his response pretty early. I dunno, seems legitimate enough to me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv3MhjSmR3c

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Old 04-13-2018, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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Originally Posted by ARedLetterDay View Post
Someone uploaded his response pretty early. I dunno, seems legitimate enough to me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv3MhjSmR3c
Wow... I can honestly say I did NOT expect that. I need a moment.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

Am I the only one wondering why they took away his Pac Man scores? Didn't he actually achieve those live in July of 1999 at Funspot on a Pac Man cabinet with a camcorder recording everything? I am by no means defending what he did and personally can't stand the way he "competes" and he should be stripped of his DK records but shouldn't the real ones count?
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

Well he cheated and lied about scores on more than one game for years, and TG's policy is wipe and ban.

In any case his cheating puts a cloud over all his scores. I wasn't there in 1999, but from what I understand about his 'perfect Pac-Man' -

* Pac-Man had already been played for a perfect score under the 3 men + 1 settings, which was TG's settings. Billy didn't discover the kill-screen nor was he the first to complete it. I think those early 3 men + 1 scores have been lost to time :O( At some point it became apparent that a higher score could be obtained using 5 men + 1.
* Billy shook hands with some friends agreeing that no one would attempt a 5 men + 1 perfect game until they met again to discuss it.
* Billy ignored the agreement and went ahead and claimed a 5 men + 1 perfect score.
* TG changed the rules especially for Billy (who was helping to finance TG) to accept 5 men + 1 settings. So now if you want to play Pac-Man for a score on the TG website you need to play with 5 men, bit odd hey.
* It is not actually known who actually got the first 5 men + 1 perfect score, however Billy got TG to recognise him as first.
* The performance was apparently taped, however the last part (with the kill-screen) is missing.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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I cheated on a game here long ago and it just ate at me until I finally came clean to get it off my chest. (To be clear, I inadvertently cheated and when I found out months later, I kept quiet about it). Anyway, I can't live like that, takes all kinds I guess.
Well said. I rememebr back in our Game Mod days, there were some of mine that were scored in the old system which could in theory have had lag or if not no way to prove they didn't, so they got thrown out. That's a fair way to roll.

This is what puzzles me about Billy Mitchell. I don't see why he would cheat so many years and still not even admit it now. It's possible, but just seems like a waste of life. Also, no offense to RevJ (who seems to be a real stand up guy) or other guys involved with TG, but TG's reputation is so much worse than any individual gamer I've ever seen. I feel like they should change their name if they want to go clean just to separate themselves from all the past shadiness and favoritism shown there.

Last edited by Winnebagel; 04-17-2018 at 03:00 PM.. Reason: Typo corrections. Remember kids, don't insomnia and type!!
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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Originally Posted by lastexposfan View Post
Am I the only one wondering why they took away his Pac Man scores? Didn't he actually achieve those live in July of 1999 at Funspot on a Pac Man cabinet with a camcorder recording everything? I am by no means defending what he did and personally can't stand the way he "competes" and he should be stripped of his DK records but shouldn't the real ones count?
In addition to what RevJ said, the wipe and ban policy could be an effective deterrent against further cheaters.

The best news about this is that Steve Wiebe is now the official first person to 1 million in Donkey Kong.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

When I heard this news, I wondered if Steven would have an orgasm.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

I never wished Billy Mitchell any harm, I just thought he was the epitome of an idiot.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

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I never wished Billy Mitchell any harm, I just thought he was the epitome of an idiot.
I wonder what the response, he alluded to, will be? Like him or hate him, Mitchell is about the closest thing the classic gaming community has had to a reality show.
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Billy Mitchell stripped of his records

I don't know if that ever happened or not. It was supposed to be a couple Saturdays ago but I didn't hear anything of it.
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