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Old 11-12-2013, 11:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Losing our humanity

Has anyone noticed the recent (relative) trend of giant companies blatantly breaking the law, and never being held accountable? For example I just came across this:

https://secure.dslreports.com/showne...-to-CIA-126607

It's seems like these days, if you are part of a giant corporation, you can do whatever you want, and not have to worry about consequences... and it's seems like there is a generally apathetic attitude towards it.

Civilian rights are being taken away, one by one, and government and big companies are becoming more and more controlling over the population.

The problem is that it's such a slow but steady process (spelled process correctly first try, woot!) that no one cares or want to take initiative.

So what do you guys think? Is there anything that can be done? Or is this our fate?

Last edited by Wolf; 11-13-2013 at 12:01 AM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Maybe this should be moved to Debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevencassidy13 View Post

Civilian rights are being taken away, one by one, and government and big companies are becoming more and more controlling over the population.
On the other hand, there are new civilian rights being gained such as gay marriage being legalized in several states across the country.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

This seems to be the source of their information - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/us...data.html?_r=0

The NSA steals the info for free, CIA pays 10Million to get just part of it. I hate that either org has the info but if they are going to be dbags at least they could be efficient and share the info with each other. Either save 10 million or avoid stealing, don't do both.

Steve you only mentioned outrage at corporations and AT&T. I hate corps and this is an exceptionally bad example of why they suck but CIA is the one that deserves the bulk of the blame IMO.

Both will probably get out of this with little more than a public non-apology apology. I think AT&T should pay a huge class action law suit to everyone they sold out - 100X what they received from CIA and fire all management that approved the deal. CIA should be shut down until it can be independently determined what led them to believe this was an acceptable idea and then remove every component that led to that decision before they are allowed to reopen. Allowing CIA/NSA to continue without an independent review is the same as telling NASA they are AOK the day after the Challenger. Something will explode and innocents will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Franklin
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Yeah, sorry my original post was not as focused as it should have been. However perhaps where it's loose ended might inspire more opinions.

@CP Yes the gay marriage thing is good, I guess (don't really care either way), but regardless of small things here and there, in the grand scheme, it's looking more and more bleak.

I think that our only hope at this point are digital vigilantes, anonymous, this is coming down to cyber warfare, and the collective technical prowess of the common folk is surly more powerful.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Vigilantism isn't the answer, because if some break the law, why can't everyone?

I don't believe that we're all losing our humanity. More and more people view the widening gap between rich and poor as a problem, and not just regular life. The next step, though, is that we all fix it, but that's more difficult. Mainly, we need that everyone not view the corporations' actions as "freedom" and "capitalism" and corporate regulation as "communism" and "big government." Real big government is spying on citizens, restricting their judicial rights and sending them to countless wars, all of which the so-called "small government" crowd really love. Ultimately corporations and government ops control people excessively because the politicians don't stop it, because those groups pay them so, so everyone needs that they not elect any politician whom these groups fund.

I don't really believe that same-sex marriage is a plus, but a secular government can't outlaw it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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+2 (+2/-0)     
Re: Losing our humanity

Some news from the other end of the spectrum.
Occupy Wall Street activists buy $15m of Americans' personal debt | World news | theguardian.com

Synopsis of the link. A group that identifies with Occupy Wall Street spent $400K to erase $15M worth of medical debt for 2 reasons. 1.) Prevent hospital bills from causing some people to file bankruptcy. 2.) Bring awareness to the fact that you can negotiate with debt collectors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevencassidy13 View Post
I think that our only hope at this point are digital vigilantes, anonymous, this is coming down to cyber warfare, and the collective technical prowess of the common folk is surly more powerful.
If your only hope is in digital vigilantes then I think you are going to be disappointed. The amount of power that the government has amassed for cyber warfare is insane. Vigilantes will fight but I don't think they can win.

The US government is currently recording nearly 100% of the internet, including parts that should be private such as email and phone calls.

They also have access countless surveillance cameras such as parking lot cameras, traffic cameras, police cameras and satellite cameras. They have software that can identify objects in videos such as cars, clothes, colors, etc, facial and stride recognition, and the ability to search all of those videos at once for natural language searches like "white man with long hair driving a red sedan south on Thursday".

The US government illegally added backdoors to most encryption meaning they can read most secrets even when you think you have done everything to protect them.

The first number below is the size of the entire Internet
The second number is the size of all data storage in the entire world - personal computers, phones, ipods, internet etc.
The third number is how much information the NSA is capable of storing.
5000000000000000000 bytes.
2700000000000000000000 bytes
5000000000000000000000 bytes

The only way I can interrupt those numbers is that the NSA plans to record and store everything forever with no intention of ever deleting anything.

The government has already illegally initiated cyber warfare with other countries, organizations, individuals and citizens.

Net neutrality is set to quietly become law soon. When net neutrality was first introduced there was a big stink all across the internet. Big companies like Google and Facebook even replaced their homepages to fight it. A year or two later and most people don't even remember what it is and the law will probably quietly be passed. They know how to patiently wait for fatigue and the next big consumer product to distract us. They know how to manipulate us through traditional non-digital means to get us to not fight back.

Drone pilots have admitted to killing people, waiting for people to come to the aid of the person they just remotely killed, then killing those people too, then going to the funeral of those people to kill the grieving. All from a remote controlled plane. No matter who the target is, that is terror. The majority of Americans are against it. Yet public opinion and ethics matter not.

News stories such as Snowden leaking info about the NSA spying on Americans and stealing/storing nearly all internet data become media sensations for a couple weeks. Then a new story comes out, something like our leaders have the negotiation abilities of a class of first graders, and we forget all about it and move on without questioning if anything should change, much less if it can, and how.

Nearly all media and news sources are owned by 6 companies. Clear agendas are pushed through them without any effort to even cover it up because they know even if we spot manipulation we don't care enough to do anything about it.

Groups like annon can fight, but they are out matched and can not win on their own. To win we have to reverse the growth of gov's cyber warfare program. It is too big to fight and if it continues it's path an Orwellian big brother future is the only possible outcome. That much concentrated power has no other reason for existing.

One of the worst parts about US starting cyber warfare is eventually all countries will start it, it is hard to track, hard to assign accountability and since we led the way we can't tell others to knock it off without being huge hypocrites. Luckily we don't have any problems with being hypocrites.


Back to hope and the future. My opinion. There has been several historic inventions that gave voice to new groups that never had a voice before. Writing, printing press, democracy, radio, tv, internet, etc. Each invention shook things up and redistributed power but eventually the power was able to reestablish itself and maintain control and power. I think in the next 10 years we will see how the voice of the internet shakes things up. Corps, gov and existing power are struggling to maintain their control. We are in a race to see if they can lock it down or if we can break it. IMO in the year 2025 freedom and equality will either be drastically better or drastically worse. If we haven't reduced the power of our cyber warfare gov by then, then we will have lost for good. But I do think we still have a chance right now.

</rant>

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Old 11-13-2013, 03:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

This sounds good on paper:

Police deactivating controversial WiFi network in Seattle | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

For those who don't know, the idea is that Seattle set up all these wifi thingies all over town, they were able to track anyone with a mobile device absolutely. Who knows what else they were capable of.

Now they claim that they have been disabled... I'd imagine people would prefer if they were out right removed though.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

In this day and age with the possibilities that technology holds, its hard not to expect that these things will happen. The government could (and probably is) monitoring us and the world a lot more than we know.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

A decently funny episode of South Park that is on topic:
South Park Zone: S17 - Let Go, Let Gov

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

A decently funny episode of South Park that is on topic:
South Park Zone: S17 - Let Go, Let Gov
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint."


Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.


While that's referring more to those who say that the younger generation sucks compared to them, it still applies in this case in that people will always think Today is worse than Before. Whether or not that's the case, it will still be the perception. I'm not saying be lenient with this kind of bull, but I am saying that unmoving pessimism is pretty blind to the real world.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

I was gonna say this is a case of world weariness until Kong brought all that up.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

@Blue Shoe. I generally agree that every generation has said the next is the worst ever and they have always been wrong. And that often led them to believe the world was about to end and it hasn't. It is important to keep that in mind.

Still though I hear alarm bells when I see one group (NSA) try to record and store every phone call, video, email, satellite image, gps location, and bit of digital information. It is a breeding ground for corruption.

Wikileaks released this yesterday
https://wikileaks.org/tpp/pressrelease.html

It is a law that several countries are trying to create in secret. Congress is voting on it but congress is not allowed to read the entire law. Corporations wrote the law and can read the whole thing. Think about how crazy that is. Wikileaks posted the entire law yesterday. I haven't read it but an international law that corporations wrote and keep secret from both public and even lawmakers can't be good.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Perhaps people shouldn't give their money to businesses who try to corrupt democracy or ignore laws for their own purposes. That seems too idealistic, but ultimately businesses are all about money, especially the crooked ones, and if people don't support those companies, they'll either change or die.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

We could quickly get rid of all drug dealers if drug addicts would just stop giving money to them.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

{WARNING: this rant contains more than 5 lines, just warning you tl;dr types in advance so you can skip over it and miss what I have to say about this}

I hate how people get so focused on attacking the messenger, and I'm thinking of people like Jesse Ventura when I say that.

I don't watch TV; it was here on RU forum that I learned he has a show called 'Conspiracy Theory'.
So I looked it up on U tube and listened to an episode .. this one about how the Nestle Corporation is draining the great lakes, and selling a lot of that water to China that isn't sold back to us in those little bottles.

My point is that it seems whenever someone like Jesse Ventura {or others seen in a 'controversial light'} say something like this, it's just like entertainment to people.

Then they go on to dismiss what the person has said {even when they show official documentation pertaining to the issue on the screen so you can check it out yourself} on the grounds that that person used to be a Pro Wrestler .. or whatever they used to be.
Attack and laugh at the messenger instead of listening to the message.

AS many of you have pointed out, it's a rigged {Political} game they've got us playing here.

What I don't understand is how come people still insist on listening to the known liars involved in and supporting all the corruption at the Govt' level you guys are talking about, namely the Mainstream Media.
{all owned by the same major corporations, by the way}

I know I'm going to get kicked for this ,but Alex Jones has been telling it like it is and backing up what he says with documentation for years and people still laugh at and ridicule him and his organization.

Losing our Humanity?
How about the new 'suicide program' they have for kids as young as 5?

They take little kids {too young to understand anything in the first place} and tell them what depression is, then ask them if they think they feel depressed.
Then they tell the kid they can end it all, mommy and daddy don't have any say in it, and they don't even have to know - and this program intends to give these kids pills that will 'make them sleep forever' ..

That's the kind of people running our world.
WE are not 'Losing our Humanity', we are being ruled by a small group of people who apparently have lost their Humanity generations ago.

Kong, the CIA has been caught numerous times bringing drugs {cocaine, heroin, etc.} into the U.S.
They have the Marines guarding the Opium fields.
The 'drug busts' you hear about are the Govt' competition being taken out of the way.
I know the same sort of thing is happening here in Canada - just look at the downtown Eastside of Vancouver!
There is too much money involved and too many people 'on the take'.

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

Quote:
just warning you tl;dr types in advance so you can skip over it and miss what I have to say about this}
Sorry about this - at that moment I felt frustrated that people often don't take the time to read longer posts.
I feel that if someone puts the time and energy into saying something at length it tends to have a very good point being made.

By the way, Kong's rant is good reading about the NSA data - grabbing/ Google issue.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

I don't how much of this is actually true, but it wouldn't surprise me. I believe that people mainly listen to what they want to hear instead of the truth if they're not the same because it comforts them more. Unfortunately, that thinking won't save us.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by RU Joe View Post
{WARNING: this rant contains more than 5 lines, just warning you tl;dr types in advance so you can skip over it and miss what I have to say about this}
I'm still not sure you understand what a TLDR is:

-person A types long post

-person A knows that some people are busy and don't have the 5-10 minutes it would take to read the post

-person A decides to include a TLDR at then end of their post so that busy people can get the jist of what they are saying


An example of a TLDR for your message might read something like:

TLDR:
-People shouldn't automatically discredit information based on societies pre-conceived notion of the source.
-Psychological warfare is being preformed on children as young as 5
-CIA heavily involved in drug trade


I'd encourage you to use them for your longer posts, so people can get the idea of what you are saying, and some might go back and read the whole thing if the TLDR sounds interesting to them.

If you know full well what a TLDR is, and simply choose not to use them, then thats your perogative, and my apologies for assuming that you still didn't understand.


TLDR:
-Talking about TLDR's
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevencassidy13 View Post
I'm still not sure you understand what a TLDR is:

-person A types long post

-person A knows that some people are busy and don't have the 5-10 minutes it would take to read the post

-person A decides to include a TLDR at then end of their post so that busy people can get the jist of what they are saying


An example of a TLDR for your message might read something like:

TLDR:
-People shouldn't automatically discredit information based on societies pre-conceived notion of the source.
-Psychological warfare is being preformed on children as young as 5
-CIA heavily involved in drug trade


I'd encourage you to use them for your longer posts, so people can get the idea of what you are saying, and some might go back and read the whole thing if the TLDR sounds interesting to them.

If you know full well what a TLDR is, and simply choose not to use them, then thats your perogative, and my apologies for assuming that you still didn't understand.


TLDR:
-Talking about TLDR's
....

....
.. ..

You are absolutely correct, sir; I had the wrong idea about TL; DR's this whole time.

THIS ALSO MEANS that certain other members of this forum also have had the wrong idea of what it is, since it was in this forum that I first saw it in use, and by that I gained what was my understanding of it.

Thank you very much for pointing this out to me, and please forgive me for wrongly using it - I only hope those other people {who have it wrong} get a chance to read your post.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Quote:
certain other members of this forum also have had the wrong idea of what it is
If you mean me then nah, I intentionally misuse internet slang when it amuses me.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudebro View Post

If you mean me then nah, I intentionally misuse internet slang when it amuses me.
See all the trouble you've caused?!



---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

SC 13:
Quote:
It's seems like these days, if you are part of a giant corporation, you can do whatever you want, and not have to worry about consequences... and it's seems like there is a generally apathetic attitude towards it.
People are very concerned.
But what can you do when they send the Riot Squad out to subdue the general public when we protest?

Remember 'Torontonimo':
G20 Convention in Toronto a few years back, the Police victimized and/or detained almost anyone who happened to be in the downtown core - even people who were not there to protest nor were aware the convention was taking place at all!

They made a temporary prison out of a closed theater, and put people into what was described as 'dog cages' with handuffs still on.
Have to use the WC? - ask the person next to you very kindly for their assistance.

Quote:
Civilian rights are being taken away, one by one, and government and big companies are becoming more and more controlling over the population.
Of course rights are going to be taken away - what else can you expect when a criminal banking mafia is running the show?

They've described in detail this was their plan all along {to crash our economies and de - Industrialize us while building up the '3rd World' } in their own writings for decades now.

'Modern Money Mechanics' and 'Ecoscience' should be enough evidence of that.

Kong:
Quote:
Nearly all media and news sources are owned by 6 companies.
I've been saying that for years now, and am usually met with an attitude of 'don't be a conspiracy theorist' , 'let me grab my tinfoil hat' , etc. and it pisses me off.

Kong is right when he said they push their agendas through the media.

I say they literally shape our collective future with it, using its enormous power of suggestion to manipulate our enfeebled minds.
Minds enfeebled by things like diet {GMO's, Aspartame}, drugs {'antidepressants', Mercury in vaccines, etc.}, along with an education system designed to reduce us mentally and physically to become ' .. the sort of citizens desirable by authorities ..'




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Comments
  
  great post, as.. usual

Last edited by RU Joe; 11-25-2013 at 06:40 PM.. Reason: The ruling class are monsters.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:44 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

It seems that the people who shout "tinfoil hat! are quieter these days, not a lot they can say when every stinkin dirty rumor actually proves true.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by RU Joe View Post
See all the trouble you've caused?!


I've TL;DRed a couple sentences before. Think of it as my contribution to humanity losing something.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

I like my tinfoil hat, it's pretty comfortable.
;D
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

I can't think of anywhere else to post this. It was interesting for me.

Death By Utopia

Actual paper - Death Squared: The Explosive Growth and Demise of a Mouse Population, John B. Calhoun, Proc. roy. Soc. Med. Volume 66 January 1973, pp80-88
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Losing our humanity

NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show - The Washington Post

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 AM ----------

Okay, so bit coins... what are the chances it's the illuminatti/global elite trying to install a global currency?
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