In 2010, are gamers ready for a main character to be gay?

[Kugyince]

Video game designers know their target audience — young white males — and being the smart, money-earning fellows they are, they design games for this audience. But in the year 2010, is this audience ready for the main character in their $60 game to be gay? Now I'm not talking about an overly effeminate, swishy, dress-wearing men making the same jokes as my classmates in 8th grade, but a real down-to-earth man, with a strong and comfortable relationship with another man.

Feature: Keep it Gay, Keep it Gay, Keep it Gay - Kombo.com (http://www.kombo.com/article.php?artid=14582)

[jim5cents]

Dante?

[Dudebro]

Dante?
:lol: Incoming SJB rant in 3.2.1...

[nikegirl2012]

I know it was a joke... but how is Dante gay?
And second... why do guys use gay as in insult? I know that's not what the article is about but I don't get it. Are guys just that insecure of their sexuality?

[Demon-Mask]

We've had gay main characters for quite the time, all you have to do is look a little deeper than the surface of the character.

[Dudebro]

I know it was a joke... but how is Dante gay?
And second... why do guys use gay as in insult? I know that's not what the article is about but I don't get it. Are guys just that insecure of their sexuality?
I'm really not trying to use gay or metrosexual as an insult. I just bring it up because SJB doesn't seem to get why Dante and Squall are more feminine than masculine.

[Delegate Zero]

They should be, but they aren't. We are still, still raised trying to be taught homosexuality is somehow wrong. A homosexual main character would be just the same as a heterosexual main character anyway, unless there is sexual scenes. In that case, if you're homophobic, then don't buy the game. If you're going to let personal feelings intervene in your gaming, then that's you.

Sometimes it's not even being uncomfortable with your own sexuality with kids, it's just how they are raised, especially with a religious family. Let's be fair, religion is a major contribute to modern homosexual condemning.

[Kugyince]

Let's be fair, religion is a major contribute to modern homosexual condemning.

Are societies that are more accepting of homosexuality less inundated with religion?

[Winnebagel]

Are societies that are more accepting of homosexuality less inundated with religion?

I bet that would be a big factor in that yes. It seems like the hardest on this issue would be Christian/Islamic groups. I don't think Judaism or many other religions are as prejudiced in this area anymore. I don't want to sterotype those religions either, but it does seem to be a prevalent anti-gay message in a lot of the ultra-right wing types of religions and groups.

To answer the original question, I think people are getting closer to accepting that if they are not already there.

Television is already featuring more and more gay characters. A prime example of this would be the enormously popular character of Captain Jack Harkness in Doctor Who/Torchwood (Omni-Sexual in the show). He is not written as some basic sterotype, but as a real three dimensional (immortal) character, and a very cool one incidentally.

[Delegate Zero]

Are societies that are more accepting of homosexuality less inundated with religion?

No society as a whole accepts homosexuality, but, hypothetically, you're more likely to have a society of liberal atheists accepting homosexuality than a society of mixed religions, yes.

[Slime Slayer]

Regardless of "ready for it" the industry is about making money. How many sales would they gain vs. how many would they lose, besides:
http://retrouprising.com/video-games/all-other-games/i-think-weve-reached-new-milestone-video-game-retardedness/t8493/

[Dudebro]

I wasn't raised with religion but I was certainly raised around a lot of homophobia. I'm not saying my parents are but the whole atmosphere was like that when I was a kid.

[Winnebagel]

Regardless of "ready for it" the industry is about making money. How many sales would they gain vs. how many would they lose, besides:
http://retrouprising.com/video-games/all-other-games/i-think-weve-reached-new-milestone-video-game-retardedness/t8493/

Yeah. Good flashback Essie. I forgot about that one. I wonder how many copies that one sold?

[Dudebro]

They did make a homosexual shooter game in japan and I believe it sold well. I'm not sure if it was because people think it's funny or not but their just more open about sexuality than we are in the US.

[samejamesbond]

Are societies that are more accepting of homosexuality less inundated with religion?

From experience, I'd say yes.

@Dudebro: I know you label them feminine because of their attire and their
attitudes, but they don't deserve that title becuase both of them have the coolest
moves of their respective franchises, and that says alot.

[Dudebro]

@Dudebro: I know you label them feminine because of their attire and their
attitudes, but they don't deserve that title becuase both of them have the coolest
moves of their respective franchises, and that says alot.
So you think in game moves make a character seem gay or not? Don't you see the point that they dress like gay guys and they look fem? I'm just pointing out the obvious, not trying to gay bash.

[Kong]

In 2010, are gamers ready for a main character to be gay?No. As an option yes, but as a mandatory main character with no choice to be straight, no, the market is not ready.

Examples
We are NOT ready for
The brothers in a Double Dragon clone to try saving their kidnapped boyfriends.

We are ready for
An RPG that allows you to marry anyone in town and you have an option to pick a man or a woman.

Games are about pretending to be a hero and mainstream consumers do not want to pretend to be gay.

Are guys just that insecure of their sexuality?Yes.

Are societies that are more accepting of homosexuality less inundated with religion?I think it is safe to say that homophibia is pushed by religion. I'm not saying we would or would not have homophobia without religion but I do believe we would have less of it.

[Dudebro]

We are ready for
An RPG that allows you to marry anyone in town and you have an option to pick a man or a woman.Fable lets you get with and marry any gender as any gender. If you check the NPC they can even say stuff like "saucy, gay, boisterous" Dragon Age lets you engage in some freakness with another guy, but only that one dude I think. It's already here and established in big name games. Technically this means we do have gay(or at least bi) lead characters and it's not a big deal at all.

[Slime Slayer]

When 51 percent of the gaming community is gay or lesbian, you will see your precious hero, until then tough luck.

[Dudebro]

It's already here it's just not big news for some reason. Fable is a very successful game and it's got homosexuality on display, if you encourage it from the npcs. You can be a openly gay hero and the npcs will be ok with it. There might be in game homophobia but I never tried that route so I can't say for sure.
If you're not into it you can just ignore the gay guys/girls fawning all over you. It's a humorous game but it's also tasteful and well put together. It's a little short though. :(

Dragon Age is weird, it's allows your character to have a relationship with pretty much any party member but the only gay relationship is between the male protagonist and the bisexual elf party member. I didn't play as a female character yet so I could be wrong but I haven't heard of any lesbian relationships. Weird right?

[Slime Slayer]

That's not the same situation db, it is cool you can do that, but the question is about a game where you play a gay person without a choice.

[Dudebro]

But does it really matter if it's your only choice? I think you mean a game where the characters sexuality impacts the story in some way. In Fable it's cosmetic basically, it has no bearing on the actual storyline.

Either way I think an RPG where your chosen character can be gay or straight is a huge step towards acceptance of gays in games. Fable is mainstream and I haven't really heard any protests or any fans angered by the homosexuality. I'm actually surprised by that, where's the outrage?

[Kugyince]

So by default Massachusettes is less religious than other states?

Are people less religious in South Africa? Mexico? Brazil? Argentina? Uruguay? Isreal? Nepal? Norway? Sweden? UK? Belgium? Netherlands? Spain? Australia?

[Dudebro]

So by default Massachusettes is less religious than other states?Not that I'm aware of why?

[Kugyince]

Considering the laws you have in place, wouldn't you consider Massachusettes less homophobic, or at least, more proactive than other areas of the country?

[Tails]

I don't care of their sexual preferences as long as the game is fun.

[samejamesbond]

So you think in game moves make a character seem gay or not? Don't you see the point that they dress like gay guys and they look fem? I'm just pointing out the obvious, not trying to gay bash.

What is dressing straight to you then? I know people who are lesbian and dress
and act the same as straight women. I don't see why people think they're
so different, they seemed happy to me.

Setzer's long flowing hair and broad leather vest and Snake's tight sneaking
suit could just as easily be labeled "gay". Stop being so superficial, Dante and
Squall are some of the most iconic characters in gaming history looks don't
change someones sexuality. Mario could be labeled gay for not hitting on
Peach for the thousandth time.

[marxxx]

I t wouldn't matter to me whether or not the main character in a game I'm playing is gay. I didn't' buy the game to talk about the orientation of the protagonist in it, I bought it to play, and as long as I can do that and enjoy myself while doing it, i could care less about anything else.

[jim5cents]

We are ready for
An RPG that allows you to marry anyone in town and you have an option to pick a man or a woman.

Bully is another example.

[Kong]

@DB. Like I said, we are ready for optional gay main characters. If the main character is gay with no option to be straight then the game will NOT be successful.

I am all for gay rights but I'm not sure there should be a Double Dragon clone with the brothers trying to save their boyfriends. Games are about selling a fantasy to the majority. The majority are straight and don't want to fantasize about being gay and that is understandable.

So all that would probably ever sell are optional addon gay twists like Fabel and low budget special interest games.

So by default Massachusettes is less religious than other states? Norway? Sweden? UK? Belgium? Netherlands? Spain? Australia?
Pretty sure the answer is yes to all of those. They call the South the Bible Belt for a reason, because they are very religious states. I also think the Bible Belt has more homophobia and hate crimes. I haven't done any fact checking on that, but that is my opinion based on spending the first half of my life there and the second half not there.

[Tails]

I am all for gay rights but I'm not sure there should be a Double Dragon clone with the brothers trying to save their boyfriends. Games are about selling a fantasy to the majority. The majority are straight and don't want to fantasize about being gay and that is understandable
I'd be freaked out if I saw a Double Dragon clone like that...

I guess I'd look past it and hope for a mod that replaces it.

[Kugyince]

Are people less religious in South Africa? Mexico? Brazil? Argentina? Uruguay? Israel? Nepal? Norway? Sweden? UK? Belgium? Netherlands? Spain? Australia?

Pretty sure the answer is yes to all of those. They call the South the Bible Belt for a reason, because they are very religious states. I also think the Bible Belt has more homophobia and hate crimes. I haven't done any fact checking on that, but that is my opinion based on spending the first half of my life there and the second half not there.

But that's only half of the ones I've listed. I even omitted little known or unimportant places like the Falkner Islands, Reunons, and Canada.

@Everyone:
Let me do some research here:
Out of the 15 countries listed (plus Canada) who have higher tolerance to homosexual activity than America six value the importance of religion more so than America does; South Africa, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Israel, and Nepal.

FunFact: Mexico has a 95% Christian population. Nepal has an 80.6% Hindu population. Israel has a 76.2% Jewish population. All three have better LBGT rights than America does.

While religion can certainly be a cause of homophobia I believe peer pressure is the largest factor, be it friends and/or relatives.

Instead of blaming some intangible religion or creed and it's few zealots maybe we'd be better served by placing the blame on ourselves?

Sources:
LGBT rights by country or territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Importance of religion by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of religious populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Winnebagel]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Mass Effect or Jade Empire. Both of those also featured the option to have a homosexual romance.

I think you have a decent point Kong. Optional gay characters are pretty accepted, but even that is a huge step. Can you even imagine that happening 10-15 years ago?

[Kong]

But that's only half of the ones I've listed.I didn't quite get your point the first time. I listed the ones I thought were less religious than the US. And just by guessing I got them all right except Uruguay and Israel.

Is your point that homophobia is not increased by religion?

A couple problems with your sources.
1. You are judging gay tolerance solely on laws such as same sex marriage, death penalty, adoption or joining military. This does not take into account, the much more important, what individuals think and do or weather the laws are actually enforced. The real question should be do the citizens feel comfortable publicly admitting they are gay.
2. You are treating all of the United States as one entity. California has way more gay tolerance and way less religion than Texas. Every state in the south probably has more religion and less gay tolerance than the rest of the US.
3. Not all religions are equal. Not even all branches of single religions are equal. Example some Muslims denominations will encourage suicide bombers and terrorism, most do not though. Just because one religious sect fosters homophobia doesn't mean that all of religion does.

While religion can certainly be a cause of homophobia I believe peer pressure is the largest factor, be it friends and/or relatives.You are not taking into account how much influence religion has had on our culture which creates our current peer pressures.

Instead of blaming some intangible religion or creed and it's few zealots maybe we'd be better served by placing the blame on ourselves?Can't you do both?

So you do not agree that the level of homophobia in America would be drastically less if the bible said, "When a man knows another man as he knows a woman then it is a glory unto himself and unto god"? Not even just a little less?

Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#History)
Homophobia is nurture, not nature. Babies are not born afraid of gays. They learn it from us. I think we agree on that much. The part where we disagree is I also think several religions help us pass our prejudices on to our children and neighbors.

Interesting. One of your links said non-theism is the 3rd largest "religion" in the world.

[Kugyince]

You know you don't have to multi-quote me to reply to me right? I'm capable of figuring out which parts of my post you're replying to. Just thought I'd save you the time.

Anyways, I've already said religion can increase homophobia in the very post you quoted. Did you miss that part?

Yes, I'm judging homosexual tolerance based upon the laws that each society has brought forth. I admit it's not perfect but the idea is that laws generally tend to reflect the populace. Public admission has way too many varying factors to properly quantify it. How do you quantify introversion?

I am treating the U.S. as one entity but I'm also treating each country as a separate entity. Just as the American state of California will differ from Texas, so will the French region of Normandie differ from Lorraine.

I agree with your third point.

Of course you can do both. Next time I see a Bible I will point my finger at it and shout out that I blame it for aiding in the spread of homophobia. I'll let you know where it gets me.

In all seriousness, I understand what it says in Leviticus. I've read the Old Testament. I just feel when you stop blaming books and start making people responsible for their own actions you're going to get much further.

This:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nfPAP3ET-zvW5M:http://jimstreasure.com/Grafx/HolyBibleIllust_thumb.jpg

Doesn't cause this:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9Pd9cN5nUU0HrM:http://mcbush3.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/burning-cross.jpg

It is only used as an excuse by those who commit such heinousness. If their was no Bible they'd just use something else as an excuse.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:B9tnFyEjkz_T0M:http://images7.cafepress.com/product/292026397v3_225x225_Front.jpg

[jim5cents]

who have higher tolerance to homosexual activity than America six value the importance of religion more so than America does; South Africa

i'm not arguing with you, but i raised my eyebrow about that. south africa actually has a low tolerance of homosexual activity. this comes from several south africans that i know, both white and black.
also, south africa has a huge problem with something called "corrective rape" lesbian women are often raped and beaten to "correct" their condition. the conviction rate in these cases is low in comparsion to other rape cases.

[Kugyince]

@Jim: I've never been there. I can only go by what Wiki is telling me.

Homosexual acts have been legal since 1994.
Recognition of same-sex relationships since 1996.
Same sex marriage was legalized in 2006.
Same sex adoption since 2002.
Gays are allowed to openly serve in the military.
All anti-gay descrimination has been banned.

I'd be interested in hearing their points.

[jim5cents]

@ ten
i think it is the recognition of government sponsored gay rights that get it a high rating on tolerance. culturally, homosexuality is frowned upon because 1. the s.a. population, particularly the majority black population is a culture of male domination. women have rights, but culturally, they are treated as submissives. homosexual men are treated as less than men, 2. s.a. has a high christian population

as progressive as the government is in recognition of homosexual rights, they currently have no law on the books concerning homosexual hate crimes. this is the primary reason why corrective rapes fly under the radar. had there been a matthew shepard in s.a., that might have gone under the radar as well.

either way, the number of south africans that i know really isn't a good litmus test for the whole population, this is based on the discussions we have had.

[Demon-Mask]

They did make a homosexual shooter game in japan and I believe it sold well. I'm not sure if it was because people think it's funny or not but their just more open about sexuality than we are in the US.
They are more accepting of homosexuality in fiction, but in reality, they are much more secretive of their sexuality. Public displays of affection are not considered okay in Japanese society, so it is safe to assume that their sexuality is left unknown to those around them.

[Dudebro]

What is dressing straight to you then? I know people who are lesbian and dress
and act the same as straight women. I don't see why people think they're
so different, they seemed happy to me.

Setzer's long flowing hair and broad leather vest and Snake's tight sneaking
suit could just as easily be labeled "gay". Stop being so superficial, Dante and
Squall are some of the most iconic characters in gaming history looks don't
change someones sexuality. Mario could be labeled gay for not hitting on
Peach for the thousandth time.
But you're missing the point or you're assuming things I'm not saying. All I've been saying is Dante and Squall are dressed metro or gay, I didn't say it makes them gay or it's a bad thing. Don't take it so personally it's supposed to be joking between friends not some condemnation of homosexuality or your fav characters.

Sorry to jump in the middle of a different tangent but I wanted to reply to SJB.

[samejamesbond]

Sorry, I thought you were being serious.

[Dudebro]

Well I am serious that I think they dress like they're metro. I just don't want you to read into something that isn't there.

[jim5cents]

Woud u play dmc if dante were gay ?

[Tails]

I thought he was?

[jim5cents]

I thought he was?

welcome to the party, pal.

[Kong]

I do think 2010 might be ready for a gay version of the Metroid/Samus stunt.

[Kugyince]

I think a gay female lead would be much more likely.

$$$

[joz]

I do think 2010 might be ready for a gay version of the Metroid/Samus stunt.
:}