Retro Nouveau

[Kugyince]

So, if you keep up with the forums (and why wouldn't you?), you'd know that I just got Cave Story on Wednesday but am already well into my fourth play-through of the game.

I've already gotten all the endings. I've already gotten all the items/weapons that I care about. I've already tried all the modes. So why am I playing? Cuz it's a damn fun game! That's why!

This game really got me thinking: unlike MegaMan 9, 10 and Sonic 4, Cave Story's "retro" style isn't actually retro. That's just what Cave Story is. We're not revisiting something from 20+ years ago.

Is this revival in "classic" gameplay just a byproduct of downloadable games have file size restraints? Or are people's tastes in gaming just as cyclical as anything else? (Swing dance and boy bands made a come back in the late 90s, 3D movies are back in fashion, the list goes on ...)

Or has gaming just gotten so bloated that a void emerged for simple, fun games to fill?

I don't have the answer for you. I only know how I feel.

So how do I feel? I feel like I love Cave Story, I loved MegaMan 9, I'll probably love MM10 when I get around to it, I loved NSMBWii, and I'm incredibly excited for some 2D elements in Metroid Other M. Of course, I'm still looking forward to the big budget, online-driven release like Monster Hunter Tri and ZengekiNR.

But that's just it - I want both. I don't think retro has to be "retro." Yes, as a style it is firmly rooted in a time long since past. But as an aesthetic? I think if the content is fresh, the game will be too.

8bit or 1080p? I'm diggin' it either way.

WiiAreDeep.com: Retro Nouveau - Why Greatness Never Gets Old (http://wiiaredeep.blogspot.com/2010/03/retro-nouveau-why-greatness-never-gets.html)

[DrunkN]

In my opinion, every video game should be in 16 bit, hold for First Person Simulations.

[Dudebro]

In my opinion, every video game should be in 16 bit,
That's like saying all photographs should be in black and white. No thanks.

[Tails]

16 bit was best.

[DrunkN]

That's like saying all photographs should be in black and white.
:bulgy-eyes: Can you read my mind?

[Dudebro]

16 bit was best.Not really, you're just being nostalgic. I love 16bit graphics too but they are nothing compared to modern graphics.

Can you read my mind?
No but it was a logical assumption.

[Tails]

I hate modern gfx, I have said this like 1000 times.

[Dudebro]

And like I've said before, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not better.

[Tails]

But you're saying I'm nostagalic, when I am not I am speaking the damn truth.

[Dudebro]

I'm not trying to piss you off or start an argument but saying 16 bit is better than modern graphics is being nostalgic(there's probably a better word but I can't think of it). Modern graphics are the evolution of 16bit. We wouldn't be where we are today without it, but it is old school and out dated.

[Slime Slayer]

And like I've said before, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not better.

DB I do hope you are aware of your underlying hypocrisy.

[Tails]

Then why bring it back? Cuz it's better. I ALWAYS hated 3D crap.

[Dudebro]

DB I do hope you are aware of your underlying hypocrisy.
I'm aware but the point still stands. Modern graphic are better because they are the natural progression. 16 bit was a stepping stone just like 8 bit before it. Tails prefers 16bit but that isn't the same thing as saying it's the best. Best implies that it's better than the rest, it's just not true.

[Tails]

In your oppinion, that is. You're acting like what you say is law or something :P

[CatalystiCam]

You should see him elsewhere. DB sure stirs things up with debate. (Don't take me seriously) :p

[Dudebro]

In your oppinion, that is. You're acting like what you say is law or something :P
It's not an opinion, next gen graphic are better. That doesn't mean 16bit sucks it just means it can do more and it looks better. That make sense? I'm just taking issue with how you said it, not why.

You should see him elsewhere. DB sure stirs things up with debate. (Don't take me seriously)
I think these guys know how I am by now. besides, it's not my fault some people on other sites can't handle a real debate right?

[Tails]

It's still your opinion, no matter how you spin it.

[Dudebro]

So are you trying to say that SMW has better graphics than a game like Oblivion?

YouTube- Oblivion Intro

[Slime Slayer]

Just because something has progressed into something new doesnt mean it's better. You just feel that way because society has geared you to beleive it, and you don't question it.
You might like modern graphics over 16bit wether or not society told you to, but at least say you like them better cause you feel they make the games a better experience for you, saying they are better because they are the latest thing is just stupid. Btw did you hear the latest Kanye West cd? Man the effects on that are amazing, way better than that scratchy noise you get while listen to dirty old records.

[Tails]

Yes, I LOVE cartoony/animey.

[Dudebro]

@Steven- I get your point but that's not what's going on here. I say they're better because they actually are. 16 bit is only capable of so much, it's limited. Like I said that doesn't mean it's bad at all. Next gen graphics are better at everything in comparison. Modern game companies may not use it to the best potential but that doesn't change the technical aspects of what's possible now compared to the 16bit era.

It's like the black and white pictures comparison from the first couple posts. Sure many die hard photographers love it and it's an artform but modern technology is just better in all aspects. Same goes for this discussion. You guys are die hard retro gamers so naturally you prefer it. It doesn't change the facts though.

[Slime Slayer]

What you are doing is confusing the word, "better" with "advanced"

Is a digital painting better than a traditional oil painting?
Is a 2011 Ford mustang better than a 57' Chev?
Is a microvaved burrito better than one cooked in the oven?

People have personal preference, If they think that the older version of something is better than no one can say that they are wrong.

---------- Post added at 07:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 AM ----------

Also I don't prefer 16-bit graphics, there are good graphics and bad graphics no matter what the technology.

[Dudebro]

I don't think it's the same thing but I don't wanna go back and forth about it. I'm not bashing 16bit graphics, some of my favorite games are from that era. To me next gen will always be better as long as it keeps improving. 16bit will always be awesome though.

Btw I'm sorry I brought it up. I was only making a passing comment at Tails.:lol:

[Slime Slayer]

I was only making a passing comment at Tails.:lol:
Yeah, I knew that but I felt like a small debate.:q

[Dudebro]

I can understand that. The point of these topics is discussion right?

[Kugyince]

My opinion on this subjective matter is correct. Yours is not.

[Dudebro]

My opinion on this subjective matter is correct. Yours is not.
Exactly.

[Slime Slayer]

Exactly.
Ummmm.....

[Dudebro]

Ummmm.....
Just go with it, trust me.

[Kugyince]

trust me.
Heh...

[Slime Slayer]

Just go with it, trust me.

Okay, I'll trust you this time.:}

[jim5cents]

i'm totally with dudebro on this one...some of you think 16 bit is better? really? sprites are better than fully rendered video? come on.

the graphics from FFVI are better than FFXIII? be honest.

[Tails]

Imo, yes.

[joz]

Yeah the graphics are better, but I like to play a game for it's depth of characters and plot. For example FFVIII and VII. Graphic wise part VIII is better than VII, but I would prefer to play VII with a much better story and overlook the characters with no mouth. Games are rated by the entire game experience not just the graphics. That's why RU is soo popular. :D

[Winnebagel]

So are you trying to say that SMW has better graphics than a game like Oblivion?

YouTube- Oblivion Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGyw_0IG5s0)

+1 DB. I have to say, as much as I love classic gaming, I also love the level of depth and immersion made possible by using current technology.

Oblivion is a perfect example. IMHO, it is the most immersive game I have ever played (I spent 400+ hours on it), and could have only been possible using today's tech.

On the other hand, I think it's cool that some companies are still making retro style games and releasing them on places like the Xbox Live Arcade. I have enjoyed seeing titles like Heavy Weapon, New Mega Man games, TMNT, etc. that are still being produced "old style".

Nevertheless, I don't think modern technology can or should be prohibited from being put in new games. There is a place for both.

Now if only they could make the next Elder Scrolls game in full 1080P 3-D I would be in heaven. :victory:

[Slime Slayer]

i'm totally with dudebro on this one...some of you think 16 bit is better? really? sprites are better than fully rendered video? come on.

the graphics from FFVI are better than FFXIII? be honest.

For the love of god, neither is better than the other, you only prefer one over the other. You like cd's, I like records, it's the exact same scenario.

[Tails]

+1 DB. I have to say, as much as I love classic gaming, I also love the level of depth and immersion made possible by using current technology.

Oblivion is a perfect example. IMHO, it is the most immersive game I have ever played (I spent 400+ hours on it), and could have only been possible using today's tech.

On the other hand, I think it's cool that some companies are still making retro style games and releasing them on places like the Xbox Live Arcade. I have enjoyed seeing titles like Heavy Weapon, New Mega Man games, TMNT, etc. that are still being produced "old style".

Nevertheless, I don't think modern technology can or should be prohibited from being put in new games. There is a place for both.

Now if only they could make the next Elder Scrolls game in full 1080P 3-D I would be in heaven. :victory:Don't die yet Bagel!

[Slime Slayer]

I want to make clear, I dont think either style of graphics are superior, There are things I like and things I dont like about both.

In this case, I prefer the more advanced graphics, they look super sweet:
http://www.xblarcade.com/files/images/sfspritecomparison_0.jpg
And I prefer this:
http://www.videogamesprites.net/FinalFantasy6/Bosses/40%20-%20Kefka.gif
to this:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/7/7e/Dissidia_Kefka_Pallazzo_ex.png

[Tails]

^ any art like that is super sweet. I just hate 3D as a whole.

[sabby]

Retro Game play/Challenge + Current Day Graphics = Awesome games.

It all depends on what you like. Are the graphics better today than yesteryear, yes. Is the technology better than yesteryear, yes again. This is a natural progression like just about everything. Does it make the overall gaming experience better, not necessarily.

For an example:

Everyone here has played a Super Mario Brothers game on the NES. When you played those same exact game on Super Mario All-Stars, was it better, maybe. Was it "prettier", yeah. What would happen if you made those same games were rendered like Mario64, Galaxy, etc., would it be better, maybe. Would it be "prettier", yeah.

Graphics will continue to progress. Now if only they could get the game play to match that of yesteryear, gaming would be even more amazing.

[Tails]

I hate the Mario 64+ art though.

[Winnebagel]

Don't die yet Bagel!

Okay buddy. I'll try to stick around in Earth Realm for a bit more. :D

[Davidizer13MK2]

I love 16-bit-style graphics, and prefer them to 3D graphics, but I think that there are things that just can't be done with that kind of technology. First-person shooters aren't nearly as good-looking or good-playing as they can be in full 3D.

But there are some things that are done better in 16-bit: look at the SNES shmup Axelay: It's a great looker, and I don't think you could get the same sense of style or feel if you remade it in full 3D. Also, compare the look of the Donkey Kong Country games and Yoshi's Island. I prefer the look of YI, which uses sprites with a crayon-drawn look, to DKC, which uses pre-rendered 3D sprites. You can have more creative looks and graphical styles with sprites than you can with 3D renderings.

Either way, though, I think it depends on the game and what you're trying to accomplish with your look

[Kong]

I agree with Jozman. Nice new Last Dragon avatar by the way.

Graphics are a small unimportant part of the game. Gameplay is the only thing that really matters. Is it fun? People forget this and just try to make the most impressive "looking" game and skip the gameplay. The more advanced games get the more they do this. Just think where the industry would be if in 1990 all game companies stopped improving graphics all together but continued to develop all other aspects of games. Understandably some of you would hate that but I would love it. I don't think improved graphics are bad I just think improved everything else (including voice and some sound effects but not including music) would be better.

And more than anything I wish 3D was a just a small genre and not a standard.

[joz]

For the love of god, neither is better than the other, you only prefer one over the other. You like cd's, I like records, it's the exact same scenario.


Not really. My dad has records that still play and sound great. I've had to throw away many cds because of scratches that just render them useless. Records are better in my opinion. Just like a Nintendo is better than modern systems. My Nintendo still works even though it's 20+ years old. I went thru 3 playstations until I got a PS2. Then I went thru 2 PS2 systems until I just stuck to my Nintendo. So in my opinion the Nintendo is better than the modern systems due to superiour durability, while being just as much fun. But then again, this is just my opinion.

It just comes down to what people prefer. The people's opinions is relevant to what is held as the "truth." That's why the world was once believed the earth was square as the truth.

[Winnebagel]

I'm kind of an, "all of the above" kind of guy when it comes to gaming. I love new and old systems and games. That's also why I never got rid of my old consoles growing up when all my friends were upgrading constantly.

A good game is a good game is a good game regardless of graphics and technology. I absolutely love Oblivion, but I also love Battletoads, Shatterhand, and Eternal Champions CD, so for me it's about the game play.

I will say that as technology becomes better, games have expanded, and types of games can be made that would not have been possible before. Are they better? That's debateable, but they are types that didn't exist before.

Still with the popularity of things like Xbox Live Arcade and places like RU, I think it's safe to say that classic gaming will never go away.

I say bring it all on.

[joz]

ain't that the truth?! I like you even more WB.

[Winnebagel]

ain't that the truth?! I like you even more WB.

Thanks Joz!

Just to further add to my weird ways, I will often play a game on RU at the same time as I am playing a game on Xbox 360, Saturn, Neo Geo, CD-I, etc. Then I will go back and forth between each game during the cut scenes of the other.

I'm really weird I guess, but I love multi-tasking, so I really do believe in the concept of everything at once (literally!). xxp

[Neutral]

Then you are unique among mortal men, Winnebagel.

And equal awesome.

[Winnebagel]

Then you are unique among mortal men, Winnebagel.

And equal awesome.

That made me LOL Neutral! :lol:

I always thought it made me near Schizophrenic and unable to comitt, but I like the way you put it better, or at least most of my personalities do. ;)

[ZedIsDead]

I'm kind of an, "all of the above" kind of guy when it comes to gaming. I love new and old systems and games. That's also why I never got rid of my old consoles growing up when all my friends were upgrading constantly.

A good game is a good game is a good game regardless of graphics and technology. I absolutely love Oblivion, but I also love Battletoads, Shatterhand, and Eternal Champions CD, so for me it's about the game play.

I will say that as technology becomes better, games have expanded, and types of games can be made that would not have been possible before. Are they better? That's debateable, but they are types that didn't exist before.

Still with the popularity of things like Xbox Live Arcade and places like RU, I think it's safe to say that classic gaming will never go away.

I say bring it all on.

I'm pretty similar. I attribute that to the fact that I started playing games in the transition years between 2-D and 3-D('94-'96) so I wound up embracing both styles.

[Neutral]

I'm also similar, down to the point where the last game I bought was Diablo II Expansion about eight years ago.

[Kugyince]

I find FFVI's graphics to be better than FFXIII's.

FFXIII's character design is garbage.

[Tails]

I saw this one girl from FF13, and tbh.. I didn't like the art.

[Slime Slayer]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/12/squenix-character-design.jpg

[Tails]

Someone ripped that from Oasis :P

[Dudebro]

+1 steven I love that picture, it's so true.

Besides that all I wanna say is I'm not saying new games are automatically better because of the obviously better graphics. I'm saying they look and sound better. We all know that modern game companies don't seem to care about content as much as they used to. Like sabby said-
Retro Game play/Challenge + Current Day Graphics = Awesome games.
If companies would just worry about how good a game is instead of appealing to the mouth breathing graphics whores we'd have some awesome games. I think Oblivion is a perfect example of what can be done, I'm sure WB will agree.

[Winnebagel]

If companies would just worry about how good a game is instead of appealing to the mouth breathing graphics whores we'd have some awesome games. I think Oblivion is a perfect example of what can be done, I'm sure WB will agree.

Amen to that DB! It's kind of a bummer that many companies don't care about releasing quality products. The nice thing about the Elder Scrolls series is they make a game only every few years when it can really be epic.

No offense to anyone, but when a game series starts coming out with a new edition every year (*cough* Fable *cough*) it could be a sign of declining quality. I know some sports games do that, but that's a different situation. I do like Fable to a point too, but when the same engine is used over and over again, it can also just be a cash grab.

I like the idea of DLC because you can use your game and just have new content for awhile, but I do think some companies have started to release things on the quick just to capitalize on something popular.