15 Most Controversial Video Games

[Kugyince]

-Modern Warfare 2
-RapeLay
-Resident Evil 5
-Postal
-Bully
-Little Big Planet
-Left Behind: Eternal Forces
-Ethnic Cleansing
-Doom
-Mortal Kombat
-Six Days in Falluja
-Mass Effect
-Custer’s Revenge
-GTA San Andreas
-Dante’s Inferno



The 15 Most Controversial Video Games (PICTURES) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/most-controversial-video_n_496423.html)

[Chuck Norris]

All those soccer moms complain and complain and complain about some stupid violence, like in GTA I ain't really gonna go out and shoot a cop irl. I'll do it in GTA though. Damn soccer moms :)

[jim5cents]

I would add Nighttrap to that list.

[Slime Slayer]

And remove little big planet.

[Kong]

-RapeLay - Obviously deserves to be on the list
-Resident Evil 5 - It is on the list because the zombies are black. It takes place in Africa, what color should they be?
-Bully - oh my you can kiss a boy! and you are a boy!!! but that would mean it is gay! oh no, better ban this game right away.
-Little Big Planet - come on, it had a song that quoted two lines from the Qur'an. What is wrong with that? Even if there is some cultural thing I am missing and this is some big taboo that I am unaware of there is no way this could be one of the 15 most controversial games.
-Left Behind: Eternal Forces - yep
-Ethnic Cleansing - for a game to be controversial I think someone needs to have heard of it before. Is this game popular or famous at all? How many copies were sold?
-Doom - overhyped
-Mortal Kombat - overhyped
-Custer’s Revenge - You rape Indians. That is all you do. Controversial means there are two sides. Is there a group of people defending this game?
-Dante’s Inferno - That was stupid of them. What happened with this? How far did it go? Doesn't have much to do with the game though. Just with their advertisement. I don't think the ad should get the game on this list.

I think we could make a better list.

[Chuck Norris]

-Little Big Planet - come on, it had a song that quoted two lines from the Qur'an. What is wrong with that? Even if there is some cultural thing I am missing and this is some big taboo that I am unaware of there is no way this could be one of the 15 most controversial games.

Kong, what were the lines, I never really played LBP

[Kong]

The song is in Somali. Translated it is
"Every soul shall have the taste of death."
"All that is on earth will perish."
I think the rest of the song has nothing to do with Islam. Not positive.
This is the song
YouTube - Little Big Planet - The Reason it got Delayed
The song was removed before the game was released because some Muslims find it offensive to use lines from the Qur'an as lyrics in songs. I've never heard of this before and I don't know how serious they take it or what % of them think this way but people really need to stop caring what other people do with or think about their religion. You shouldn't be able to say, I find this song offensive, remove it. In news recently was the attempted assassination of a guy that drew a picture of Mohamed. Life isn't that serious, lighten up.

This game shouldn't be controversial. One background song had two slightly offensive lyrics to one group of people that was probably small. The song was removed before the game was released. Where is the controversy. Not really on the same level as rape and genocide.

[Slime Slayer]

-rapelay, isnt a game, its interactive pornography
-bully is on there because the game is about making nerds lives miserable
I agree with most of your points kong.

[Dojah]

The song was removed before the game was released because some Muslims find it offensive to use lines from the Qur'an as lyrics in songs. I've never heard of this before and I don't know how serious they take it or what % of them think this way but people really need to stop caring what other people do with or think about their religion. You shouldn't be able to say, I find this song offensive, remove it. In news recently was the attempted assassination of a guy that drew a picture of Mohamed. Life isn't that serious, lighten up.
I have to disagree. I have many Muslim friends, my best friend is a Muslim. Islam as a whole does not like using scriptures as anything other then scriptures. Same goes for drawing Mohamed, anyone remember Southpark a couple years back??

If I told someone not to talk about my mother, and they totally disrespect and do it anyways, dont you think I have the right to be mad? Normally that person would get smacked up. Why is this not the same? A billion + Muslims have no say about what is being used? Scrpitures being used as anything other then that, and the drawing of Mohamed is nothing new. I remember back to about 7 years old when I learned that. Personally I think that guy is about as ignorant and disrepesctful as some white guy going into a chinese restaurant using his fingers to make his eyes slanted. I mean people should be able to do whatever they want, but if some guy gets shot for doing something he knows others really dislike, well then thats his fault. Its like someone wearing all blue going into an area with all bloods, they should be able to walk right on by, and say something like lighten up...but we all know what would happen.

[Kong]

@Wearing blue in bloods hood. Yes we know what would happen, that doesn't make it right though.

I don't think one group of people should be able to tell another group of people how to behave. If you don't want to hear your scripture sung then fine, don't listen to it. But you can't tell someone else that they have to want the same thing.

[Slime Slayer]

True, that's the whole point of differnt beliefs, should we also cover up our women head to toe? No, because that's someone else's ideal.

[Dojah]

@Wearing blue in bloods hood. Yes we know what would happen, that doesn't make it right though.Right for whom? In the mind of the bloods its seems right. Thats their belief" I don't think one group of people should be able to tell another group of people how to behave". This applies here as well right?

I don't think one group of people should be able to tell another group of people how to behave. If you don't want to hear your scripture sung then fine, don't listen to it. But you can't tell someone else that they have to want the same thing.
I agree one group should not be able to tell another group anything, BUT I also feel people should respect others beliefs to a point. Like my last example if I asked people not to talk about my mother, and they go and do it anyways...well people will probably get hurt. IMO its a matter of respect. I mean sure go ahead and draw Mohamed, and write songs with Quaran verses, I am not Muslim, but I do respect their beliefs. So when some guy makes a drawing and happens to get shot, well thats his own dumb fault. I have no sympathy. Its a form of prejudice, and honestly I am glad people who do that get hurt. I am not trying to pull out any bible verses but I think this one works regardless of the religious background of it....Treat others how you would like to be treated....dont disrespect others and you wont be disrespected.

[Slime Slayer]

I best answer lies in the middle of the 2 sides, people should not go out of their way to offend anyone by purposfully exploiting any part of their culture, on the other hand a certain culture should not expect anyone who follows a different set of rules to also follow their own.

[Dudebro]

-Modern Warfare 2- I think they really didn't need to add a level where you can blow away civilians at an airport. They claim it was meant to showcase the horror of terrorism or w/e but I bet it was more about media attention.

-RapeLay- This should be illegal imo.

-Postal- Why does one murder sim get heat and not another? If they don't list Manhunt then they automatically fail. Manhunt was literally graphic murder the whole time. Postal is tongue in cheek, imo.

.-Left Behind: Eternal Forces- Hateful, ignorant game but it's not anywhere as bad as Ethnic Cleansing.

-Ethnic Cleansing- I think this is illegal.

-Mass Effect- This is a great example of how some groups jump all over a hot topic without any knowledge of it. If you read the linked article it says how some talking heads started flipping out about the supposed graphic sex and disrespect towards women. Turns out the game is nothing like that at all and most retracted their statements. Mass Effect treats the sex like a P-13 movie, just look at the picture in the article.

-Dante’s Inferno- The situation in the linked article is wrong but otherwise there's nothing wrong with this game.

@Dojah- Where do we draw the line? Many people in the muslim world were outraged over a drawing of mohamed but they don't have a problem with stomping on burning american flags and burning effigies of our leaders and other symbolic things. I am personally sick of this whole childish thing muslims are doing. They are mostly blind and deaf to their own people being ignorant, hateful hypocrites and they react with outrage over an editorial cartoon? This wasn't just limited to fanatics or radicals it was very widespread and many people were calling for blood. Sorry I have no sympathy.

[Kong]

Right for whom? In the mind of the bloods its seems right. Thats their belief"".Bloods may think they have the right to shoot some people. There is a difference in thinking you are right and being right.

This applies here as well right?Nope. This is a dictatorship. As Tenser says, this is like my house and you are all invited guests. I am talking about the world, not your house. If someone came over to your house and started making mama jokes and you told them to stop and they did not then you are fully in your right to kick them out. You might even be in your right to beat them up.

If you are watching a movie and someone is making mama jokes and you don't like it then you are fully in your right to turn it off not to tell the director to rewrite the movie.

See the difference. You can tell people how to act in your house. You can't tell them how to act everywhere in the world.

The thing we are debating is whether one group should be allowed to tell another group what music they include in a video game. I stick by my opinion that they should not.

However if the debate was should someone be able to decide what music is played in their own house then yes, they should.

Many Muslims think all women should wear burqas and completely cover their bodies in public. Should everyone do that even when it is not their own personal belief? No, you control yourself, that is it.

Many people think no one should be allowed to burn a flag. Should we make that a law? Should we condone it if someone wants to take the law into their own hand and kill someone that burns a flag?

I don't think people should intentionally try to piss people for the sole purpose of just offending them. But people need to get some thicker skin. Decide what you want in your life and stick with that. Don't worry about what other people are doing. If you don't want to listen to the song then don't. But don't tell someone else what they can listen to and don't get upset if they disagree. You can't control everyone and you have to accept that.

So when some guy makes a drawing and happens to get shot, well thats his own dumb fault.I totally disagree. It is wrong to shot people because they drew something you didn't want them to draw no matter what it is. The fault lays with the person that did not realize that.

Treat others how you would like to be treated.That goes both ways. You think the people doing the shooting want to be shot next time they step on someone's beliefs. I want people to be allowed to draw anything they want. They want to shoot people that do that. Should I treat them the same and shoot them? When does it stop.

Treating people the way you want to be treated boils down to you live your life and I'll live mine. If you don't like my life then look the other way, don't shoot me.

dont disrespect others and you wont be disrespected.
Not true. And a better solution is don't be so easily disrespected or don't care so much when you are.

I am personally sick of this whole childish thing muslims are doing.I think it is important to point out we are talking about the vocal minority. Not mainstream Muslims.

Dojah you started out saying your best friend is Muslim. I would be interested to hear if he thinks people should be shot for drawing Muhammad or if a video game should be changed because it contained two sung religious verses.

I'm not 100% positive but I don't think theses are the types of things the average Muslim cares that much about. I think we are letting the vocal few speak for the quiet many.

[Dojah]

@Dojah- Where do we draw the line? Many people in the muslim world were outraged over a drawing of mohamed but they don't have a problem with stomping on burning american flags and burning effigies of our leaders and other symbolic things. I am personally sick of this whole childish thing muslims are doing. They are mostly blind and deaf to their own people being ignorant, hateful hypocrites and they react with outrage over an editorial cartoon? This wasn't just limited to fanatics or radicals it was very widespread and many people were calling for blood. Sorry I have no sympathy.
Do you even know why the muslim world does these things??? Do you honestly believe they do it just to do it? You can call them childish all you want, but it also seems childish to call the islam world ignorant over protecting thier land. No offence but it seems you have no clue of why they they do those actions, but you can speak on it as if they are wrong. You do know Americans burn the American flag quite often right. Its ok for us to do it but not them? If muslims drew Mohamed, or used verses of the Quaran to write songs, then told us not to I would have a completely different look on this.

The line I would think is respect. If muslims burn flags, and they got shot, then its their fault. See how that works. I am not saying we have to abide by everyones beliefs, but respect them. I dont think that is to much to ask, for anyone. There is alof ot childish muslims, but there is alot of childish chistians, budhists, atheists, etc... also.

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Bloods may think they have the right to shoot some people. There is a difference in thinking you are right and being right.

Says who? Truth is sujective. right/wrong, and good/bad are different things. Your truths are not my truths. So how can one tell another how to live or believe, or what his actions should consist of? Seems it works for some situations but does not work for others.

Nope. This is a dictatorship. As Tenser says, this is like my house and you are all invited guests. I am talking about the world, not your house. If someone came over to your house and started making mama jokes and you told them to stop and they did not then you are fully in your right to kick them out. You might even be in your right to beat them up.

I was talking about the bloods belief, and how others should not be able to tell them how to think, this was your words.


If you are watching a movie and someone is making mama jokes and you don't like it then you are fully in your right to turn it off not to tell the director to rewrite the movie.

Ok but if that guy gets shot then why care? He made his decision. Just like if a muslim who burns a flag gets shot, why care, he also made his decision. If neither disrespected the others belief it probably would be alot better


See the difference. You can tell people how to act in your house. You can't tell them how to act everywhere in the world.

Not really, I mean it sounds good but thats not how the world has ever been or ever will be. So it seems the most logical thing to do is have respect. I mean those muslims who burn flags do it publicly for a point.

The thing we are debating is whether one group should be allowed to tell another group what music they include in a video game. I stick by my opinion that they should not.

I am not saying these people should not have the right...they have all the right in the world to do what ever they want. But I also think the other person has the right to do whatever they want as well. You cant tell others how to feel, how is that any better? So you are saying one group should not be able to tell another group what they can listen to, but you CAN tell one group how to react to that other group? How does that make any sence?

However if the debate was should someone be able to decide what music is played in their own house then yes, they should.

I agree.

Many Muslims think all women should wear burqas and completely cover their bodies in public. Should everyone do that even when it is not their own personal belief? No, you control yourself, that is it.

Exactly, so respect their beliefs, and let them do what they do. But would it be smart to put up naked posters everywhere in thier land? NO, not only is that disrespectful but its ignorant. To personally feel my feeling are better than anyone elses, or my rights etc...So if I did such things I would expect to get shot. Not cry about it after the facts, and blaim it on others. I control myself, and make my own decisions.

Many people think no one should be allowed to burn a flag. Should we make that a law? Should we condone it if someone wants to take the law into their own hand and kill someone that burns a flag?

Well lets see. If there were 2 guys and one wanted to burn a flag, the other said no dont do that around me, its my belief and my personal feeling to praise the flag, its my religion. But the other guy goes ahead and does it anyways, I wouldnt condone it but I would understand it if that guy gets killed. Also I dont think anyone was taking the laws into their own hands.

I don't think people should intentionally try to piss people for the sole purpose of just offending them. But people need to get some thicker skin. Decide what you want in your life and stick with that. Don't worry about what other people are doing. If you don't want to listen to the song then don't. But don't tell someone else what they can listen to and don't get upset if they disagree. You can't control everyone and you have to accept that.

I agree excpet making the quaran into song verses. This goes into the slot of intentionaly trying to piss people off IMO. Its like a white rapper using the N word, yeah get some thicker skin and blow it off. Dont worry about it, if you dont want to listen then dont. Do you honestly believe this would fly? Come on now.

I totally disagree. It is wrong to shot people because they drew something you didn't want them to draw no matter what it is. The fault lays with the person that did not realize that.

Well thats your opinion. But again what you think is right is not what others think is right. I can promise you if you were born in the mid-east you would have a different opinion on this. How can you tell someone else how they feel is wrong? I mean its ok to say the guy who shoots someone is worng but not the person who eggs it on?
1. Its ok to feel how ever you want, draw disrespectful drawings purposly to piss people off. This is ok.
2. Its NOT ok to react to this though. This is wrong. This does not make sence to me. Unless we are going for a one sided discussion, then it makes perfect sence.

That goes both ways. You think the people doing the shooting want to be shot next time they step on someone's beliefs. I want people to be allowed to draw anything they want. They want to shoot people that do that. Should I treat them the same and shoot them? When does it stop.

Well it starts and stops with respect. Growing up in the ghetto I learned these things pretty quick. I grew up around tons of different races, religions, gangs, etc...and this is all probably because of my upbringing, but you learn to respect others beliefs/thoughts even if their not your own. You dont go and follow what they are doing but you simply do not purposly disrespect their belief/feelings etc...or you WILL get jumped or worse. Code of the streets, squash your beef.

[QUOTE=Kong;113166]Treating people the way you want to be treated boils down to you live your life and I'll live mine. If you don't like my life then look the other way, don't shoot me.

I totally agree, but the world has never, and will never be this way. Its a fairytale life IMO, and since that will never happen start with something small, like respect. Maybe that little thing will go along way and turn out for the better.


Not true. And a better solution is don't be so easily disrespected or don't care so much when you are.

Yeah but again this has never ben the way of the world, so it wont work.

I think it is important to point out we are talking about the vocal minority. Not mainstream Muslims.

Depends.

Dojah you started out saying your best friend is Muslim. I would be interested to hear if he thinks people should be shot for drawing Muhammad or if a video game should be changed because it contained two sung religious verses.

We talked about the drawing before, but never the verses. I will ask him. But about the drawing, he does not feel they should get killed, but he does understand the reasoning behind it.

I'm not 100% positive but I don't think theses are the types of things the average Muslim cares that much about. I think we are letting the vocal few speak for the quiet many.

I think it is. The majority of muslims follow thier book alot more than christians follow thiers. When I was younger I remember My friends dad showed me how to read the Quaran...meaning when you read the book you must have the book above your waist. I bet if there were some muslims on the site there would be a better debate/discussion.

[Kong]

If muslims burn flags, and they got shot, then its their fault. No because Life > Flag.

If neither disrespected the others belief it probably would be alot betterIf people did not so easily allow other people disrespect them then it would be better. If you don't want to burn the flag then don't. If you don't want to see people burn the flag then don't watch. You are not going to stop flag burning by getting upset. It is better to care about what you can control than to obsess about what others are doing and it is wrong to tell other people what they can and can't do.


So it seems the most logical thing to do is have respect.What about the respect to allow other people to live their lives however they want. We are talking about a video game that is played in your own home. You should have the right to choose what you play. Not what other people play. These people are not going into Muslim homes and forcing them to play the game.

I agree excpet making the quaran into song verses. This goes into the slot of intentionaly trying to piss people off IMO.I really do not think the person that wrote the song or the group that made the game ever had the intention of pissing anyone off.


start with something small, like respect. I agree except I think people should respect people's freedom to express themselves. I think respect means you will let me use any words I want, draw any picture I want, listen to any song I want. To me, that is respect. Respect is not expecting or demanding others change for you.

I bet if there were some muslims on the site there would be a better debate/discussion.As far as I know there are none in the forums. For the record I have never had a Muslim friend. Just point out that I would not be familiar with customs and what not. But I think for argument sake we can replace everything with flag burning. Same idea and is something that Americans can easily understand.

[Dojah]

No because Life > Flag.

For you though. There are millions of people who will die for their belief, and their country. It was a bad example though.

If people did not so easily allow other people disrespect them then it would be better. If you don't want to burn the flag then don't. If you don't want to see people burn the flag then don't watch. You are not going to stop flag burning by getting upset. It is better to care about what you can control than to obsess about what others are doing and it is wrong to tell other people what they can and can't do.

I agree to a small point. But this all goes back to the reasoning behind it right? Why are they burning flags? Maybe if something happened there would be no need to burn the flag right? I mean do you think blacks should have just turned away when crosses were being lit up? Nope, kill that disresptful jerk, and stand up for yourself.


What about the respect to allow other people to live their lives however they want. We are talking about a video game that is played in your own home. You should have the right to choose what you play. Not what other people play. These people are not going into Muslim homes and forcing them to play the game.

So respect others if they are purposly disrespecting you? This does not work for any animal on earth I can think of. When should you stand up for yourself then?
I agree with you man, but people now days really dont care what others think, and I think thats a huge problem.

I really do not think the person that wrote the song or the group that made the game ever had the intention of pissing anyone off.
I do. Unless ignorance is the case. If its ignorance, then were told and changed it after they learned about it then good for them. Now if there are jerks they will do it again, but I doubt these people are that disrespectful. I applaud them.


I agree except I think people should respect people's freedom to express themselves. I think respect means you will let me use any words I want, draw any picture I want, listen to any song I want. To me, that is respect. Respect is not expecting or demanding others change for you.
It sounds like you described how people should respect you, and not respect.
If that person needs to express himself through mocking someones belief then something is wrong there, and to me it seems to be the person expressing themselves. How is that right by anymeans? Should we respect the KKK?

As far as I know there are none in the forums. For the record I have never had a Muslim friend. Just point out that I would not be familiar with customs and what not. But I think for argument sake we can replace everything with flag burning. Same idea and is something that Americans can easily understand.
Times 10 or 100. I am not muslim but based off my experience this is far more important then a flag. Nations come together to fight to the death over this book. Not a flag.

[Demon-Mask]

-Modern Warfare 2- I think they really didn't need to add a level where you can blow away civilians at an airport. They claim it was meant to showcase the horror of terrorism or w/e but I bet it was more about media attention.

So the only side of a war depicted, should be the American side?

[TrakMastaTom]

Has anyone ever played the Columbine Massacre RPG? It was pretty messed up. And I remember the game where you assassinate JFK. I wouldn't even mention these games since they are both homebrew PC games, but so is some of their list.

---------- Post added at 04:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 AM ----------

In regard to Mass Effect, watch this segment from Fox News and prepare for lulz:
YouTube - FOX NEWS Mass Effect Sex Debate

[Mareeps]

*facepalm*

Also, Chuck Norris is mentioned at 3:47.

[Kong]

Quotes from the TMT's Fox news clip. "Let's look at the statistics. Whose playing games? Adolesent males, not their dads." "All the research shows that violence has a desensitizing effect. Sex does too." "Research says that boys that play games can't tell the difference between what they see in a game and real life." Fox news sucks!

In Mass Effect I think all you can see is the side of an aliens boob and a butt.


I mean do you think blacks should have just turned away when crosses were being lit up?The crosses were being burnt on their front lawns and were a form of terrorism and a sign that they probably would be lynched soon. That is completely different than me burning a flag in my back yard.


So respect others if they are purposly disrespecting you?I am saying don't allow others to disrespect you by not caring what others do. The only person you can change is yourself.

I do. Unless ignorance is the case. If its ignorance, then were told and changed it after they learned about it then good for them. Now if there are jerks they will do it again, but I doubt these people are that disrespectful. I applaud them.
The song existed before the game. Someone played a pre-release version of the game and made the complaint. Then Sony destroyed the existing copies of the game and made new copies without the song. This delayed the release of the game and cost money. That extra expense will be passed on to consumers. I assume they did some quick math and decided that this was the cheapest option and if they left the song in they would some how lose money through bad PR or lost sales to Muslims.

Should we respect the KKK?If the KKK wants to sit in their back yard and talk about how much they hate people then you don't need to respect them but you also don't need to care. Just ignore it. If the KKK wants to take it a step farther and do something to someone else then we should try to stop them.

@ Modern Warfare. The game is called Modern Warfare and modern war involves killing civilians in crowded areas. I don't see how this is any different from any other game that glorifies war. I think it is bad for kids to play but no worse than COD.

[Winnebagel]

How did Manhunt and BMX XXX not get mentioned? Weren't they banned in many countries?

As to the other issue, I respect freedom of speech, but I also believe we should respect other cultures and beliefs. However, that doesn't mean that I have to alter my life because of someone else's belief system.

This is one of the reason's why separation of church and state is so important. There should be laws that supercede religion (any religion), and protect the individual's human rights (above religion).

Dojah, if someone has the right to kill anyone because they don't agree with their views, where does it end? Does everyone in the world have to adhere to the beliefs of that one group just so they won't be killed? How is that right?

Based on that line of thinking, I guess it was okay that certain Muslims killed Theo Van Gogh for making an anti-Islam film. I guess it was also okay for the Christians who engaged in the Crusades and killed Muslims because those Muslims didn't agree with the Christian tenets. Further I guess it's okay when a Christian blows an abortion doctor away because the abortion doctor disrespected the Christian by performing abortions that the Christian didn't support.

When someone gets a death threat because they drew Mohammed in a cartoon, something is wrong. It has been popular to make fun of Jesus and Christian iconography for years, but for the most part, the majority of Christians today don't seem to kill people when this happens. There was a time in the past when that wasn't the case, but the religion has moved past some of the previous barbarism it once ascribed to.

I have had some good friends who are Muslims as well, but maybe they were not as devout because they didn't think killing people over different beliefs was cool. I have had a couple of Buddhist friends too, and I have never heard them say anything about that either.

I think freedom of speech is cool, and people should be able to believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt/harm/kill someone else. When it starts to, it is no longer cool.

[Dojah]

Dojah, if someone has the right to kill anyone because they don't agree with their views, where does it end? Does everyone in the world have to adhere to the beliefs of that one group just so they won't be killed? How is that right?

I am not saying they have the right to kill because of different views. Even though all humans do have that right, or option I guess. I am saying I totally understand if someone gets hurt if those views are mocked publicly. Like I said earlier I dont believe people have to abide by anyones beliefs, but to simply respect them by not publicly mocking them.

Based on that line of thinking, I guess it was okay that certain Muslims killed Theo Van Gogh for making an anti-Islam film. I guess it was also okay for the Christians who engaged in the Crusades and killed Muslims because those Muslims didn't agree with the Christian tenets. Further I guess it's okay when a Christian blows an abortion doctor away because the abortion doctor disrespected the Christian by performing abortions that the Christian didn't support.

Well everyone has different truths, and one persons truths does not void anothers. I think you are taking my stance as respect others beliefs, as bow down and follow their beliefs, which is not the case. As for Theo, he said alot of things that would get people killed. It just happened some radical terrorists done it. He was a racist, a sexist who said many things. To actually refer to Mulims as people who have sex with goats(in worse words)!! Is that Okay?? I think not, or if that is ok with everyone then why cry after the case? Seems stupid to me. It seems no different than a white rapper using the N word to express himself. How is that cool with people?

When someone gets a death threat because they drew Mohammed in a cartoon, something is wrong. It has been popular to make fun of Jesus and Christian iconography for years, but for the most part, the majority of Christians today don't seem to kill people when this happens. There was a time in the past when that wasn't the case, but the religion has moved past some of the previous barbarism it once ascribed to.

Why is this person drawing Mohamed? What would make one do this? Because they are bored? It seems they are purposly trying to piss someone off. What I am getting at is if everyone shows a little bit of respect towards others things like this would probably not happen. Why push someones buttons purposly to feel like you expressed yourself? If I started to draw black people being lynched, yes thats my right, but whats the reasoning behind it? Does nobody see a problem there? In order to fix a problem I would think you should start at the origin, or nothing will ever get fixed.

I have had some good friends who are Muslims as well, but maybe they were not as devout because they didn't think killing people over different beliefs was cool. I have had a couple of Buddhist friends too, and I have never heard them say anything about that either.

My Muslim friends never thought it was ok or cool that people got killed, but they understand the reasoning behind it.

I think freedom of speech is cool, and people should be able to believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt/harm/kill someone else. When it starts to, it is no longer cool.
Who determines when someone gets hurt/harmed? Are we only talking physical harm? Financial harm? Geographical harm?(being forced to move due to this)?
I mean it might be cool to let a bunch of KKK members to spout their beliefs, but when something happens, guess what...its to late, and people die.

[Kong]

if those views are mocked publicly.
They were not mocking anyone. It was an innocent mistake. The song was in Swahili. They probably didn't know what the lyrics meant but if they did then they probably didn't know they were from the Qur'an. If they did then they probably didn't know that was taboo. They weren't trying to hurt anyone and the fact that such an innocent mistake is capable of offending is sad IMO.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me." Yes, not always 100% true. Sometimes words really do hurt. But you can't go through life caring about what everyone else says and thinks. Anyways, I have said all I have to say on the subject. Anything else would just be repeating. Agree to disagree is all we can do.

[Demon-Mask]

How did Manhunt and BMX XXX not get mentioned? Weren't they banned in many countries?
I played BMX XXX, it was a porn delivery system disguised as a terrible BMX game. You didn't even have to play the actual game to get the videos, you could just enter the password and be done.

[Dudebro]

@ Modern Warfare. The game is called Modern Warfare and modern war involves killing civilians in crowded areas. I don't see how this is any different from any other game that glorifies war. I think it is bad for kids to play but no worse than COD.
You're right it's no worse, MW2 is actually a COD game. I guess you are out of touch with current gaming. :lol:


Do you even know why the muslim world does these things??? Do you honestly believe they do it just to do it? You can call them childish all you want, but it also seems childish to call the islam world ignorant over protecting thier land. No offence but it seems you have no clue of why they they do those actions, but you can speak on it as if they are wrong. You do know Americans burn the American flag quite often right. Its ok for us to do it but not them? If muslims drew Mohamed, or used verses of the Quaran to write songs, then told us not to I would have a completely different look on this.

The line I would think is respect. If muslims burn flags, and they got shot, then its their fault. See how that works. I am not saying we have to abide by everyones beliefs, but respect them. I dont think that is to much to ask, for anyone. There is alof ot childish muslims, but there is alot of childish chistians, budhists, atheists, etc... also.
I know why many muslims are angry at the US and other allied nations but that doesn't give them the right to routinely call for the death of innocent people just because they happen to be non muslim or they live in the US.

Are you muslim? If not does it bother you that when they call for "death to america" they would like to see your family and friends dead because of their beliefs or lack thereof? I'm assuming you think it's all fair because they should have a right to be maniacs but you are just wrong. There is right and wrong and they are wrong. No one has a right to bully others under the threat of death. They are making themselves look evil while preaching how peaceful their religion is.

When I call them childish I mean how they can do whatever they want towards others but when anyone dares to mock them they flip out and call for beheadings or other unreasonable responses. Obviously this is due to their constant brainwashing and ignorance but that isn't an excuse either. This is wrong and we should be very outspoken against it.

I try to have respect but like I said before, they routinely call for the death of my loved ones and I cannot be cool with that. They need to grow up and act like modern humans, not barbarians.

The line I would think is respect. That's fine but they need to look at themselves and see how hypocritical they're being. Not all muslims are like I described but there is a large number of them being this way, can't really deny that. I think the rational muslims need to step up and control the nutjobs instead of just focusing on the rest of the world. Btw why should the rest of the world show respect to people who advocate murdering innocent people? Should we take the high road while they continue to act like blood thirsty morons anytime anyone dares mess with their religion? I guess we should just stand back and let everyone do whatever they want. Sorry I don't work that way. I have no respect for murderers or those who advocate it for no good reason. No sympathy.

[Dojah]

I know why many muslims are angry at the US and other allied nations but that doesn't give them the right to routinely call for the death of innocent people just because they happen to be non muslim or they live in the US.

If you think they call for death to innocent people because people happen to be non-muslim or live in the U.S. you are way off. Its like calling all Americans racist KKK members because some US citizens believe that way. Not all terrorists are muslims, and not all muslims are terrorists.


Are you muslim? If not does it bother you that when they call for "death to america" they would like to see your family and friends dead because of their beliefs or lack thereof? I'm assuming you think it's all fair because they should have a right to be maniacs but you are just wrong. There is right and wrong and they are wrong. No one has a right to bully others under the threat of death. They are making themselves look evil while preaching how peaceful their religion is.

No I am not Muslim. No it does not bother me, when a small minority calls death to America I know this is not the thought of all Muslims. But it IS OK for Bush to call for a crusade, and say Dead or Alive etc..right?? Sounds a little one sided to me. But no we Americans are not maniacs, we are sound, rightous people who do good for all others...We can blow 200,000 people to death with a couple bombs but we are the good ones? If we are taling about fundalmentalists, then both sides have them, and both sides are wrong. Talk about making themselves look evil, while preaching how good they are, sounds kinda familiar. It seems what America does contradicts what we say we are as a country. Our policies contradict our own basic values.

When I call them childish I mean how they can do whatever they want towards others but when anyone dares to mock them they flip out and call for beheadings or other unreasonable responses. Obviously this is due to their constant brainwashing and ignorance but that isn't an excuse either. This is wrong and we should be very outspoken against it.

I agree, to a point. Yes alot of fundies are childish, but to use that name as a whole people is wrong IMO. Its the same view as the hard core extremsist have about Americans. We are ALL bad people, which obvioulsy is not the case. I agree we should be outspoken against the hard-core followers, but you just cant put all those people under one category. If so I would also consider that childish, wouldnt you?


I try to have respect but like I said before, they routinely call for the death of my loved ones and I cannot be cool with that. They need to grow up and act like modern humans, not barbarians.

Yeah us Americans never do that, we are more modern and less barbaric. Our own president called for a crusade, how do you think they would take that? Is that not a call for death of their loved ones? Here is something I found interesting about our non barbaric country: Estimate 280,000 muslim deaths due to American policy, while 10,000 deaths to Americans killed by Muslims were the victims of non-state terrorist groups such as al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its a rough estimate but I think this shows something about our non-barbaric nation.

That's fine but they need to look at themselves and see how hypocritical they're being. Not all muslims are like I described but there is a large number of them being this way, can't really deny that. I think the rational muslims need to step up and control the nutjobs instead of just focusing on the rest of the world. Btw why should the rest of the world show respect to people who advocate murdering innocent people? Should we take the high road while they continue to act like blood thirsty morons anytime anyone dares mess with their religion? I guess we should just stand back and let everyone do whatever they want. Sorry I don't work that way. I have no respect for murderers or those who advocate it for no good reason. No sympathy.
I agree 100% that the majority of Mulisms need to stand up and control the minority or hard-core followers. But we cant act like our own government is perfect and never done anything like this, which it has, and worse. Maybe there is a reason the whole world hates us, maybe its not the citizens but our policies, which in reality is no different than a religion in terms of following preocedures. Maybe this is why no one has sympathy for us.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

They were not mocking anyone. It was an innocent mistake. The song was in Swahili. They probably didn't know what the lyrics meant but if they did then they probably didn't know they were from the Qur'an. If they did then they probably didn't know that was taboo. They weren't trying to hurt anyone and the fact that such an innocent mistake is capable of offending is sad IMO.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me." Yes, not always 100% true. Sometimes words really do hurt. But you can't go through life caring about what everyone else says and thinks. Anyways, I have said all I have to say on the subject. Anything else would just be repeating. Agree to disagree is all we can do.

I was mainly talking about the picture on this quote, And IMO its public mockery.

But after discussing this and talking to others about it, I know I am not alone with my thoughts. From where I am from everyone has the same thought as me, except one of my friends fathers. He is on the same thought as most of you guys. I have a lot of respect for this guy, and perhaps its the way he explained his view to me, but it made more sence than what was said here in this thread. He gave me a book to read and ponder over.

Its called The Four Agreements.
Be impeccable with your word~Speak with integrety. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Dont take anything personally~Nothing others can do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you wont be the victim of needless suffering.
Dont make assumptions~Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama.
Always do your best~Your best is going to change from moment to mement; it will be different when you are healthy as oppesed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgement, self-abuse, and regret.

I am going to give this a try, and its all due to this thread. I am going to see if I can change my thoughts on things that are drilled into my beliefs, and my surroundings/enviroment. Because right now I think you are all crazy, and one sided. Maybe its me, and I guess I will find out.

Much Love to all Retro

[Kong]

Just to clarify, I was never implying that Americans were somehow superior.

In the current conflict between Americans and Muslims I think both sides are to blame and both sides should grow up however I do think the Americans started it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_%28intelligence%29) and denying that and covering up is one of the chief reasons why both sides can't quit.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

I was mainly talking about the picture on this quote, And IMO its public mockery.What picture? What quote?

Be impeccable with your word~Speak with integrety. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.I think this has been your point so far. I do think it is a good point, I just don't think you should force it on others.

Dont take anything personally~Nothing others can do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you wont be the victim of needless suffering.
This has been my main point.

[Dudebro]

If you think they call for death to innocent people because people happen to be non-muslim or live in the U.S. you are way off. Its like calling all Americans racist KKK members because some US citizens believe that way. Not all terrorists are muslims, and not all muslims are terrorists.
Yes I know that's not the only reason why they call for the death of infidels but it makes it easier to accept if the victims are non muslim(since we are of the faithless and not worth as much as a real muslim).

Also worth noting is the huge difference in number when comparing radical muslims and the KKK. Even at it's peak the KKK never came close to the amount of people calling for death to america, some countries include it in speeches as part of public policy(Iran). Our radical morons are marginalized and only tolerated because we think it's important to give everyone free speech, even if they don't deserve it.

No I am not Muslim. No it does not bother me, when a small minority calls death to America I know this is not the thought of all Muslims. But it IS OK for Bush to call for a crusade, and say Dead or Alive etc..right?? Sounds a little one sided to me. But no we Americans are not maniacs, we are sound, rightous people who do good for all others...We can blow 200,000 people to death with a couple bombs but we are the good ones? If we are taling about fundalmentalists, then both sides have them, and both sides are wrong. Talk about making themselves look evil, while preaching how good they are, sounds kinda familiar. It seems what America does contradicts what we say we are as a country. Our policies contradict our own basic values.I have never said that I supported Bush or his administration. I think they did a lot more harm than good. The fact that he did call for a crusade is ridiculous and proves how the christian right controlled a lot that went on with his administration. Thank god he's out of office, hopefully Obama can repair some of the problems.

That being said, the US does contradict itself but nowhere near how bad the muslims do it. They constantly claim that their religion is about peace but all the evidence points to the contrary. They allow their radicals to murder innocents and ruin any hope of diplomacy and still they do nothing. I blame the rational muslims for being apathetic. Imo they don't care because we aren't muslim. If the radicals were fighting their own people you can bet things would be different.

The muslim theocracies breed radicals and no one seems to care enough to stop it. At least we don't promote this kind of thing in the US. It still happens but most sane people are adamantly against it.

I agree, to a point. Yes alot of fundies are childish, but to use that name as a whole people is wrong IMO. Its the same view as the hard core extremsist have about Americans. We are ALL bad people, which obvioulsy is not the case. I agree we should be outspoken against the hard-core followers, but you just cant put all those people under one category. If so I would also consider that childish, wouldnt you?I only lump all of them together because most muslims seems to rally behind their own people in spite of how insane they seem to be. America is very divided and it's very obvious to anyone who looks. The muslim world is not this way. Their hardcore religion demands solidarity. We all know how that would go in the US.

Yeah us Americans never do that, we are more modern and less barbaric. Our own president called for a crusade, how do you think they would take that? Is that not a call for death of their loved ones? Here is something I found interesting about our non barbaric country: Estimate 280,000 muslim deaths due to American policy, while 10,000 deaths to Americans killed by Muslims were the victims of non-state terrorist groups such as al Qaeda or the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its a rough estimate but I think this shows something about our non-barbaric nation.I don't support going to war unless we were attacked first or there is an obvious threat. But, I am not naive. The muslim world has made it clear that we are at war and this will not change any time soon. The US is not one to sit by and wait, we strike. Like it or not that's the way it is.
When your enemy does not fight a conventional war it causes innocents to get in the middle. Do you think we should just let the extremists do whatever they want because they choose to hide around innocent people? Wouldn't the blame fall on them for putting their own people at risk like that? It's a no win situation for the US.

I agree 100% that the majority of Mulisms need to stand up and control the minority or hard-core followers. But we cant act like our own government is perfect and never done anything like this, which it has, and worse. Maybe there is a reason the whole world hates us, maybe its not the citizens but our policies, which in reality is no different than a religion in terms of following preocedures. Maybe this is why no one has sympathy for us.I never said anything about pretending the US is perfect. I know why we are so hated but there's not much I can do about it. I can take issue with some person across the world wanting to kill my family for no good reason. I don't care about their reasons or religion. If it comes down to me or them I'll choose my loved ones everytime.

Be impeccable with your word~Speak with integrety. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Dont take anything personally~Nothing others can do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you wont be the victim of needless suffering.
Dont make assumptions~Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama.I wish more muslims would listen to these three suggestions. Obviously other religions as well but the muslims seem to have a monopoly on taking everything very personally and making assumptions about lies and half truths.

I'm sorry you think we're crazy and that this seemed to bother you so much. I respect your opinions even if I strongly disagree with them. I know you're not blinded by faith based brainwashing so I have no problem discussing this kind of thing with you.

[KingRanech]

Um..did anyone include "Rapelay" on the list? Thats pretty controversial.

[Tails]

Check first post man, it has everything you need in life.

[Kong]

This has gone way off topic. Can a mod move all the Muslim debate into a new topic.

Also worth noting is the huge difference in number when comparing radical muslims and the KKK. Even at its peak the KKK never came close to the amount of people
Around 1925, the peak of the KKK, 15% of all eligible Americans (WASPs) were in the KKK. 4-5 million. At its height in 2001 the Taliban had 45,000 people and Al-Qaeda had 1,000. The numbers aren't the important part. The point is every group has people who are capable of being nuts.

Everyone is human and all humans have the same faults. The situation is to blame not the person. And the situation is that America gave them adequate reasons to hate us and adequate weapons to maintain power. I am not saying they should hate. I am saying that given the same situation any other group would also hate. And that much hate would lead nearly any group to any means available to retaliate. It is the situation that America started that caused the conflict not the people.

Our radical morons are marginalized and only tolerated because we think it's important to give everyone free speech, even if they don't deserve it.Freedom of speech is how our extreme radicals got and keep their power (I think corporations, money, elections, propaganda, corruption and lobbyist are also how our radicals get power but that is for another topic). A difference is the Taliban got their power because America gave them the military strength to take it and keep it. Without America they would not have ever had any strength. A group that gets and keeps power through military force will of course be more scary than a group that gets it through freedom of speech. That isn't because of the religion or the people though. It is just a difference in how the situation played out.

That being said, the US does contradict itself but nowhere near how bad the muslims do it. They constantly claim that their religion is about peace but all the evidence points to the contrary.America itself is a huge hypocrite bigger than religions which are also huge. You are still comparing the whole group as one solid group though. There are branches. Islam is just about the same religion as Christianity and Judaism. They are all equally peaceful and equally hateful and worship the same god and pretty much the same books. It is how you choose to interpret it which is up to the person not the religion. It is the fringe group that is declaring Death to America and it is the mainstream group that is saying they are peaceful. That in itself is not hypocritical.

I am a peaceful American that would never want a war with Iraq because some "Muslims hate us for our freedom" (even if that was the true reason for the war). However America would. So if I say I am a peaceful American while America starts a war without provocation does that make me or America a hypocrite or just two separate entities with different voices.

They allow their radicals to murder innocents and ruin any hope of diplomacy and still they do nothing.What should they do? The radicals have all the military power. If the KKK ran the U.S. military and attacked Africa because they were black would you stop them? How?

I blame the rational muslims for being apathetic.I doubt they are apathetic. Just powerless.
If the radicals were fighting their own people you can bet things would be different.They are fighting their own people. How do you think they got power in the first place, by passing out lollipops?

I only lump all of them together because most muslims seems to rally behind their own people in spite of how insane they seem to be.Any credible source for this view?

I don't support going to war unless we were attacked first or there is an obvious threat.Do you support the Iraq war? We were told there was both reasons, most believed it. But it was a lie. We did it anyways. I think the difference is little enough that claiming Americans are superior is hypocritical. Even if their reasons for war were worse, ours are still bad enough that you should not take pride in it.

The A small portion of the muslim world has made it clear that we are at war and this will not change any time soon.Fixed.

The US is not one to sit by and waitThat's how we got into this mess in the first place. We wont leave people alone. It's like being 10 years old and the neighborhood bully comes over everyday and takes your lunch money and then gives you a lecture that goes against what you're parents teach you and he tells you that his kids will do the same to your kids. And then the bully is surprised when the kid turns 21 and is angry and big.

I know why we are so hated but there's not much I can do about it.My point in all of this, is you know why we hate them and you know why they hate us. And you know you are powerless to prevent the things that make them hate us. But you are failing to realize they are just as powerless to do the same. Someone has to stop hating first. Waiting for everyone else will be a long wait especially if they are also waiting for you.

[KingRanech]

Check first post man, it has everything you need in life.

Danke Tails.

[Dudebro]

This has gone way off topic. Can a mod move all the Muslim debate into a new topic.
I think it'd be best if we just wrapped this up here. I don't think we need a debate about Muslims.


I get the point your making. I know people are people regardless of what god they pray to. All I'm saying is there seems to be this fear of the muslim world and people don't wanna rock the boat. Personally I'm sick of worrying about other people when they don't seem to care about me or my loved ones. I like to think of my self as compassionate but it's hard to care when all I see is hate and evil.

That being said I've tried to make it clear but just in case, I don't hate all muslims. I don't even hate the majority of muslims. I only hate the ones who want to harm the US or my loved ones. That segment of their population needs to go away. I don't care if it's from a napalm that causes collateral damage or if it's a snipers bullet at their family dinner. Some people are more dangerous alive and we(the world) are better off without them. I know that view isn't popular but I don't care.

If you'd like me to answer your last post more in more detail I will but I figured this is a topic best left undiscussed. This will be my last post about this in here. If people do wanna continue it let me know and I'll merge these posts into a new topic.

[Kong]

The type of hate they have for America can not be cured by Americans killing them. The options are genocide (which I hope is obviously a bad choice) or stop giving them more reasons to hate us. Anything in between those two options is only going to prolong the conflict with no end.

Other wars are similar except in traditional wars you have to make a government leader submit. A war on terrorism doesn't have a leader. There is no one that can sign a peace treaty or surrender. It is a war that can last forever. You can not win unless you profit from war (which many do).