Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[zarny]

If Captin Kirk fought Han Solo who would win?
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1280232462265&id=d2cda06b1cb0b246df25ed389e70d201&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.trekweb.de%2feinleitung%2ftos %2fkirk.jpghttp://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1337737742591&id=67573403904cfcc72449a9846adc193b&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.geocities.com%2fHollywood%2fH ills%2f6245%2fhan1.jpg

[CatalystiCam]

Stargate SG-1 beats both, and I don't like Star Trek, I kind of hate it.
Star wars is alright.

[zarny]

Star Trek could beat Stargate SG-1 any day!!

[Mikman]

Star Wars is my least favorite. It is simply a rip-off The Lord of the Rings and The Wizard of Oz. It makes no sense whatsoever. Many of the characters are lame and unnecessary (Jar Jar Binks). Star Trek is better, as it is somewhat of a sci-fi, but it can be preachy sometimes. Stargate is the best so far. It's cool.

The best Star Wars movies were Revenge of the Sith, for its action scenes, and The Empire Strikes Back. The best Star Trek television series were Enterprise and Deep Space 9; the best Star Trek movies were Star Trek (2009) and The Wrath of Khan. The best Stargate series, from what I've seen so far, is Universe, but I think I should wait till the end of the season to deiscern that.

I actually like Han Solo more than Kirk, but I don't know who would win.

[samejamesbond]

Someone was very creative on YouTube:

YouTube - Star Trek vs. Star Wars

[Winnebagel]

Stargate SG-1 beats both, and I don't like Star Trek, I kind of hate it.
Star wars is alright.

Bless you lad! Stargate SG-1 is awesome indeed. Although, to be fair, SG-1 does owe something to the original Star Trek since it is more or less a modern version of it.

Kirk would wipe the floor with Han Solo. I like Han alot, but he was more of a gambler/pilot than a fighter anyway. He could shoot a blaster, but that was about it. Kirk has fought and defeated Gorn, Klingon, Romulan, and humans alike (many times bare handed). There are many great heroes in the pantheon of Science Fiction, but I think Kirk sits atop the heap as the archetype to beat.

[JKool]

Kirk would win because he always wins.

[Dudebro]

I agree with cameron, SG1 beats both of them.

The best Star Trek television series were Enterprise
I think that's the first time I've heard someone praise Enterprise over TOS and TNG.

The best Stargate series, from what I've seen so far, is Universe, but I think I should wait till the end of the season to deiscern that.You mean the two or three episodes are already better than 10 +seasons of SG1?:lol:
I like Universe but it seems too much like BG already(I think that was the intent anyways).

[CatalystiCam]

SG1 is alright, I'm watching it because it's actually humorous and everyone isn't so dang serious(excluding other worlds) I'm mainly watching it because it's readily available by my brother(first seven seasons).

[Slime Slayer]

im saving star trek and star wars for my elder years so ill have something to do.

[Dudebro]

Another good sci fi show is Farscape. It was canceled far too soon for no good reason. Two of the main actors went on to join SG1 so at least that's good.

[Slime Slayer]

i found out about farscape looking for this song: YouTube - Fields of Marigold Farscape Music Video

[Smittycal]

What about BSG? One of the best shows EVER!!

Oh and as far as Kirk vs Solo..Kirk would whoop him. The only way Han would win is if he sicked his Wookie on him.

[Dudebro]

What about BSG? One of the best shows EVER!
I liked it well enough but I got sick of all the drama. If you want to see a similar show just watch the new Stargate, Universe.

[CatalystiCam]

I don't like sci-fi, I am surprised I like SG-1, but thanks anyways DB.

[Dudebro]

If you like SG1 you should at least check out Farscape.

[Winnebagel]

I liked it well enough but I got sick of all the drama. If you want to see a similar show just watch the new Stargate, Universe.

Agreed. The effects were great, but I thought some of the stories took themselves so seriously they almost became unrealistic to me. I haven't seen SGU yet, so I can't comment on that.

im saving star trek and star wars for my elder years so ill have something to do.

We're getting closer and closer to those days all the time Steven. :'(

Another good sci fi show is Farscape. It was canceled far too soon for no good reason. Two of the main actors went on to join SG1 so at least that's good.

Very true DB. Great taste as always DB (and Steven too). Farscape was totally different, but overall great. It was very experimental, and I think they failed hard sometimes, but when it was good it was awesome!

Another one I have started watching recently, which didn't last long, is Starhunter. It's very low budget, but it has some pretty good stories. In watching it, it has also made me realize just what a complete and utter rip-off Firefly was of this show. I liked Firefly pretty well, but it owed its main characters and many concepts to Starhunter.

[CatalystiCam]

I may DB, but like I said, SG-1 is convenient, it's readily available to me for free.

[Dudebro]

So I guess besides SG1 I'd say Star Trek beats Star Wars. If you think about it the comparison isn't fair, Star Wars is in the past, Star Trek is in the distant future.

[asher]

I was wondering isn't Fringe technically sci-fi (drama)?
Kirk would rip Han apart (with his bare hands)!

[OldTimer]

Han would 'shoot first' like he did to Gredo before Kirk had a chance to react.

[RU Joe]

Star Wars, despite its memorable and quotable characters is a little bit cheesy, but has its moments.
A few, scattered throughout the saga.
It makes for great gaming, (although some of the early games were difficult) and I love SW Battlefront and Rogue Squadron.
Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/3841/) » Nintendo (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/nintendo/)

Star Trek fell out of popularity due to the characters being literally 'too good to be true' (or too virtuous to be real).
That is what I read, although they forgot to point out that the poor budget, fighting on the set, and complete lack of continuity throughout the series probably had something to do with it as well.
Game-wise, all I really know is the NES 25th anniversary game which involves some tough puzzle solving, and the coin-op game which was pretty neat for its time.
Star Trek 25th Anniversary (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/3823/) » Nintendo (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/nintendo/)
Star Trek (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/6374/) » Coin Op (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/coin-op/)

[Winnebagel]

Han would 'shoot first' like he did to Gredo before Kirk had a chance to react.

I thought Greedo shot first and missed, though he was only 1.5 feet away from Han?

[zarny]

Han would 'shoot first' like he did to Gredo before Kirk had a chance to react.

But Kirk always has a plan and he always wins.

[Mikman]

Greedo shot first and missed; Han shot second and didn't miss. That should be impossible, though, because unless Greedo can't shoot, Han Solo can't dodge a laser bolt; laser bolts are composed of light (and you call Star Wars sci-fi).

TNG was slow and pretentious, not "intellectual" as everyone said it was. It was inconsistent, and the characters were undisciplined and sometimes unnecessary (Troi and Wesley). TOS was somewhat lame, but that can be excused because it was made in the 1960's, and because it was intentionally funny. ENT and DS9 were better structured. I agree that ENT took a wrong turn with the Xindi conflict, but it had a lot of good episodes. The storylines of DS9 were more interesting than those of TNG.

The overused situation where Kirk always finds a way to escape at the last moment became somewhat moronic.

I've never watched much of Battlestar Galactica, or any of Farscape.

[Dudebro]

Han Solo can't dodge a laser bolt; laser bolts are composed of light (and you call Star Wars sci-fi).
We never said it was good sci fi. Star Wars wasn't trying to be accurate as far as I know. Like most media it was designed to make money.

TNG was slow and pretentious, not "intellectual" as everyone said it was.I think you're forgetting the most important part about TNG. It was the first to come after the extremely campy, barely serious TOS. To go from that to professional and serious(mostly) is a big leap. They didn't have the benefit of riding the others coat tails like DS9, Voyager and Enterprise did with TNG. All those newer shows had a template to work with and they all stayed true to the professional teamwork TNG is known for. Like WB or Tenser once said TOS felt more like buddies exploring the universe and TNG felt like coworkers who were on good terms. Not the exact quote but close enough I think.

I've never watched much of Battlestar Galactica, or any of FarscapePersonally I didn't like BSG. I tried to watch it but it was so heavy on the drama that I lost interest.
Farscape on the other hand is one of my favorite shows. It's hard to explain really but something about it felt different then other sci fi tv shows. It was almost surreal at times but it always stayed within the continuity. Also they use puppets from the Jim Henson company, that's pretty much ftw. They even reused some of the ones from Dark Crystal for one alien race, touched up for modern times of course.:smirk:


Star Wars, despite its memorable and quotable characters is a little bit cheesy, but has its moments.
Star Trek fell out of popularity due to the characters being literally 'too good to be true' (or too virtuous to be real).That sounds about right. I only like the good parts of star wars. There is a lot about it I don't like. Same with Star Trek really. I think what really got me into Star Trek was watching TNG and really liking Data and Picard. Other then that I'm not really into it.

[Winnebagel]

I know I have tried to make that point about the friends vs co-workers thing before DB. Even though I don't think the chemistry is as good in TNG versus TOS, TNG is still one of the best shows out there.

Furthermore, I have to admit I am monumentally sick of people calling every show with philosophical ideas, "preachy". If a show that dares to dream of a better world where humanity has gotten past some of their stupidity is "preachy" then sign me up. I'd rather have that than most of the crap shows today which are either about nothing or are completely nihilistic.

@ Mikman, I think calling something moronic without seeing all of the episodes is somewhat moronic. Kirk didn't always escape on his own. He often had the help of the crew and others. Many times he didn't physically overpower his enemies, but he used his intellect to outsmart them (Picard was the same in that area).


@ DB, I think Farscape was great in part because it took a lot of chances and did strive to be weird. I really enjoyed it for the most part.

Along the lines of weird Sci-Fi, has anyone seen Lexx? It is one I have thought about checking our because a lot of people say it is weird kind of like Farscape.

As far as Star Wars, I still like it. Sometimes I think people are hard on George Lucas. His original intent was to make movies for kids, so some of the wacky things in the movies are due to that I think. Ewoks may not have been my favorite things, but when viewed through the prism of childhood, I think they fare better.

[CatalystiCam]

I agree with paragraph 2 WB, it would be neat, but in ways, I don't think were ready... well... maybe some things are best left untouched metaphorically speaking, at least at this point in time. Mars is the next step ;)

[Winnebagel]

I agree with paragraph 2 WB, it would be neat, but in ways, I don't think were ready... well... maybe some things are best left untouched metaphorically speaking, at least at this point in time. Mars is the next step ;)

I'm with you on that buddy. I agree that we're not there yet, but I think that we never will be until enough people try.

One thing that kind of bugs me about a lot of modern shows it that it seems they are just so full of hopelessness. I know a lot of bad things happen, but life isn't all bad. I guess I'm maybe just an optimist, so in spite of bad things, I have always believed that humans are capable of great things.

That's probably why shows like Star Trek, SG-1, and Farscape appeal to me more than mega depressing shows. :D

[Dudebro]

Furthermore, I have to admit I am monumentally sick of people calling every show with philosophical ideas, "preachy".
Also worth mentioning is how Mikman calls TNG preachy then goes on to say he likes DS9, Enterprise and Stargate. All of those could be considered preachy if you don't agree with the message they are pushing. If anything DS9 was the worst offender since it had that whole religion storyline going on. I remember many Sisko speeches where he was full of righteous indignation.
Don't get me wrong though I do like DS9.

Along the lines of weird Sci-Fi, has anyone seen Lexx? It is one I have thought about checking our because a lot of people say it is weird kind of like Farscape.
I know I've mentioned it before but I liked Lexx a lot. It wasn't as good as farscape but it was cool. My only main issue with the show was the lack of focus, it didn't follow a solid storyline(at least none that I could see).

[Winnebagel]

Also worth mentioning is how Mikman calls TNG preachy then goes on to say he likes DS9, Enterprise and Stargate. All of those could be considered preachy if you don't agree with the message they are pushing. If anything DS9 was the worst offender since it had that whole religion storyline going on. I remember many Sisko speeches where he was full of righteous indignation.
Don't get me wrong though I do like DS9.

Good point. I like DS9 as well, but it definitely has the Sisko passion (Avery Brooks is a fabulous actor IMHO.)

I suppose it's similar in theme and setting somewhat, but another show I really like is Babylon 5. I think all of the actors were great, but Bruce Boxleitner (an excellent actor anyway) put in some amazing acting work in that show.


I know I've mentioned it before but I liked Lexx a lot. It wasn't as good as farscape but it was cool. My only main issue with the show was the lack of focus, it didn't follow a solid storyline(at least none that I could see).

That's cool I didn't remember you mentioning it, but you have good taste in shows, so that is an additional plus. It is one of the next ones I want to check out, but I am having a hard time finding the uncut episodes on DVD. A lot of them seem to be out of print.

[CatalystiCam]

Me personally, If there was an actual Stargate that existed, I wouldn't go through it unless the world is going to end, which is what most people would say, so in billions of years when the Sun dies out, we will have the technology :) not that that will happen in my life, but we'll probably have the technology to travel past the asteroid belt in my lifetime... hey, then we can finally try and land on saturn, Neptune & Jupiter, I wonder what would happen? volunteers? :p

[Winnebagel]

Me personally, If there was an actual Stargate that existed, I wouldn't go through it unless the world is going to end, which is what most people would say, so in billions of years when the Sun dies out, we will have the technology :) not that that will happen in my life, but we'll probably have the technology to travel past the asteroid belt in my lifetime... hey, then we can finally try and land on saturn, Neptune & Jupiter, I wonder what would happen? volunteers? :p

I would step through if given the chance. To see what's out there, I just couldn't pass it up. :) Count me in.

[Dudebro]

I'm with you guys but we are straying too far from the topic. If this becomes a discussion about sci fi or space in general I'll have to move it out of debate.

[Winnebagel]

I'm with you guys but we are straying too far from the topic. If this becomes a discussion about sci fi or space in general I'll have to move it out of debate.

Let's get it back on topic then. There are already too many topics being moved to Junk right now IMHO.

I think Star Trek has a better story overall, but has had the opportunity to develop over a long period of time. However, Star Wars is more in the adventure vein (ala Flash Gordon), so for its category I think it's one of the best. Also, gotta' love those light sabers.

[CatalystiCam]

yeah, okay DB, I through in my anecdote, I'm good, I may step through for curiosities sake WB.

I know what you're saying though, my sister is always watching these stupid reality shows... I think they lost the true meaning of reality show, it's not some kids "acting" out drama in other countries.

I used to like star wars, but I just don't like it much anymore with all the "seriousness" and weird looking aliens, same goes double for star trek.

[Dudebro]

Like I said before I only really like TNG and DS9 so my opinion of Star Trek as a whole isn't too favorable. Star Wars on the other hand was good overall, I liked all the movies and cared about the characters. I can't say the same for TOS, Voyager or Enterprise.

[Kugyince]

@ Mikman, I think calling something moronic without seeing all of the episodes is somewhat moronic.

I think requiring some one to view every single episode of a series before forming an opinion of a show is moronic. ;)

Back on topic, TOS was far, far, far greater than TNG in my opinion. TNG came off as too "stuffy" for my tastes.

[lestat7902]

Han would win versus Kirk. Kirk would spend too much time listening to Spock calculate the odds.

[Mikman]

Perhaps "preachy" is the wrong word. However, I must disagree about the "co-worker" status of TNG. The characters on TNG were never disciplined. They could do whatever they wanted, and they rarely were punished. Even worse, both Picard and Riker constantly refused promotions. In a system with a military style of command, you're not supposed to refuse promotions. I also disliked Wesley because he was allowed to work on the ship when he was not technically in Starfleet. TNG also caused a lot of continuity problems. The worst think they did was continually violate the Prime Directive. I like intellectual sereis, but TNG was not.

I do think that Kirk would probably win against Han Solo.

One thing about the original series that became repetetive was how Kirk frequently "died" and "returned to life."

Also, I never understood why in Star Trek the captain and his highest-ranking officers always visited the most dangerous planets. I understand that in the original series they couldn't hire many actors, but they could have in the later series.

[JKool]

Han would win versus Kirk. Kirk would spend too much time listening to Spock calculate the odds.

Hehe. That's funny and true.

[Dudebro]

Perhaps "preachy" is the wrong word. However, I must disagree about the "co-worker" status of TNG. The characters on TNG were never disciplined. They could do whatever they wanted, and they rarely were punished.

Yeah there wasn't much in the way of punishment but they were chastised and reprimanded for violations(same with all star trek shows besides TOS it seems). Picard was not the kind of character to allow people to do whatever they want. I'm starting to wonder if you even watched the show.
People who violated the rules for bad reasons were almost always punished/killed in some way and none of them were crew of TNG(the main cast I mean not minor crew or guest characters).

Even worse, both Picard and Riker constantly refused promotions. In a system with a military style of command, you're not supposed to refuse promotions.I'm no expert but I don't think there's anything wrong with declining a promotion. To me it was obvious that Picard and Riker didn't want to move on and they were allowed to stay because they were good officers in important positions.

I also disliked Wesley because he was allowed to work on the ship when he was not technically in Starfleet.Well no one is gonna defend Wesley. Even Wil Wheaton hates the character.:lol:

TNG also caused a lot of continuity problems. The worst think they did was continually violate the Prime Directive.I was confused by this claim so I looked it up on Memory Alpha, a very reliable source-
Prime Directive - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Prime_directive)
From that list I see 4 violations by TNG main crew.
1-Picard interfered when aliens were going to execute Wesley(I'm sure this is sore spot for many fans).
2-Data answers a distress call and maintains communication with the alien. Because of that they end up fixing the life threatening problems on the planet.
3-Worf kills Duras and alters the government of the Klingons. He is excused because the killing took place during a Klingon custom. Despite that Picard put a reprimand on his permanent record. That's at least some kind of punishment.
4-Picard breaks the directive by directly telling an alien race about humans and their goal on the planet. He does this because some science station malfunctioned causing the aliens to discover a science team, not the bridge crews fault.None of those seem like bad intentions to me. I think each one was necessary and totally understandable.

Now since you went there I'll have break some bad news to you. It seems it's widely known amongst trekkies that Sisko was probably the worst offender(Kirk and Janeway were pretty bad too).From the wiki-
"Sisko would walk a very fine line concerning the Prime Directive during the entire course of his command of Deep Space 9, the line becoming thinner over the years as he increasingly embraced his role as "Emissary". His influence over Bajor was so great that they backed out of Federation membership at the very last moment on his advice"
Now I realize this is a wiki but it's also a very strict one and it's contributors are rabid star trek fans. I think we can rest easy knowing they are very concerned with canon.

Also, I never understood why in Star Trek the captain and his highest-ranking officers always visited the most dangerous planets. I understand that in the original series they couldn't hire many actors, but they could have in the later series.Who would you send out in your flag ship? I think most people would agree you'd use your best crew and captain. DS9 and Voyager were different because they weren't on the Enterprise, the flagship. Kirk, Picard and Archer were supposed to be top of the line along with their crews. Being top of the line it's natural to assume they'd also be a part of the away teams since they're so highly trained/skilled. The Captain is supposed to stay on the ship but Picard, Kirk and Archer(didn't really watch it so not sure about him) ignored this rule. I know at least Riker would try to stop Picard, on TOS I don't think it was ever even mentioned.

Sorry to go into so much detail about star trek but wiki is full of all kinds of interesting tid bits, it's hard to resist. I'm really not a trekkie I swear.

[asher]

I would have to disagree DB, if the USS Enterprise (the aircraft carrier), the flafgship of the American fleet (let's just say), was in Iraq, or an unknown place, they wouldn't send the captain (one or both of them) on the shore wth the marines. Since TNG is more advanced (supposedly) you would think that they wouldn't DO THAT!

[Mikman]

It's too dangerous to send down your highest-ranking officers. The creators of Star Trek should have created characters whose sole purpose was to visit planets.

If the creators knew anything about the actual structure of a military, they would never have made Riker and Picard refuse any promotions.

The crew of TNG didn't do very much exploration. Voyager did so much more. Even Enterprise did more technically.

[gaber]

Han Solo would beat Kirk. Has anyone seen Kirk fight. He fights like the A-team.

In every Star Trek characters got away with breaking the rules. Only characters of the main cast never were punished because what they did was "right". One big problem with TNG was Troi. Why was the ship psycologist on the bridge and involved in every major decision. Also what was the point of Riker on the bridge. In all the series there were good and bad parts.

Star Wars is just basic entertainment. It never tried to show scientific greatness or tell peaple the future. Stargate is the best.

[samejamesbond]

Han would win because Han shot first.

[Dudebro]

@Asher and Mikman- You're acting like this is supposed to be based on real life. It's a tv show, they send the main characters because people aren't interested in watching a group of extras exploring an alien planet. Also if they just promoted them and moved on we'd have new cast members all over the place, again not a good move for a TV show. The promotions are there to show how well the characters are doing according to starfleet, refusing promotions shows their dedication. Make sense?

Why was the ship psycologist on the bridge and involved in every major decision. Also what was the point of Riker on the bridge. In all the series there were good and bad parts.
Because she was able to read peoples emotions and tell if they're lieing, that's a huge advantage in diplomacy.

So did you three watch TNG at all or are you just hating on it without actually knowing what's going on?

[JKool]

So did you three watch TNG at all or are you just hating on it without actually knowing what's going on?

They watch TNG. They hate it but they still watch alot of it.

[asher]

DB Jack O'Neill naver refused a promotion, did he? And Stargate is one of the best sci-fi shows out there.

[JKool]

If Spock fought Chewbacca who would win?
I Say Spock would own Chewbacca.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1320763793290&id=65d39c9b2b744516f488cbe4562b3e09&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.jdmfilmreviews.com%2fimages%2 fstar-trek-spock1.jpghttp://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1169683321272&id=6019ec3fde7cdfff0536f26e7e6f4d29&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.gigfoot.net%2fimages%2fchewba cca.jpg

[xfighter1138]

Sorry guys, but Babylon 5 is way superior.

[Winnebagel]

If Spock fought Chewbacca who would win?
I Say Spock would own Chewbacca.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1320763793290&id=65d39c9b2b744516f488cbe4562b3e09&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.jdmfilmreviews.com%2fimages%2 fstar-trek-spock1.jpghttp://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1169683321272&id=6019ec3fde7cdfff0536f26e7e6f4d29&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.gigfoot.net%2fimages%2fchewba cca.jpg

I agree Yasly. Chewbacca is very strong, but so are Vulcans. Spock is also a highly trained warrior, so he would probably put a neck pinch on Chewie, and that would be it.

[zarny]

Since Chewy is so big he will throw Spock on the ground if he tries to pinch him.

[Mikman]

I made a mistake. I meant to say that Han would definitely defeat Kirk. Kirk and his crew fight like they werein a bad western movie.

I don't entirely hate TNG. I simply think it's overrated. Instead of having Picard and Kirk refuse promotions, they should have never made any offers for promotion. Instead of Troi and Wesley, they could have created characters with come sort of use, such as visiting planets or defending the ship.

In a "gunfight," I think Spock's more accurate phaser would outdo Chewbacca's "laser bow." However, in a battle of strengths, Chewbacca would over power and defeat Spock.

[gaber]

First, I don't hate TNG. I enjoy it most of the time but there are things about it that really annoy me.

Second, Chewbacca would rip Spock apart.

[samejamesbond]

Never saw a Vulcan rip a person's arms off.

[Dudebro]

They watch TNG. They hate it but they still watch alot of it.
Thanks for that bit of info it helps me understand what's really going on here, they're just jealous of TNGs awesomeness compared to all the shows that came before and after it. :lol:

DB Jack O'Neill naver refused a promotion, did he? And Stargate is one of the best sci-fi shows out there. I'm not sure if he refused promotions but he sure made it well known that he didn't want to be promoted(he never really wanted to be there at all). Besides, I thought Mitchell was better anyways.


About Chewbacca vs Spock, I'd put money on Spock. Bacca would charge and spock would calmly drop him to the floor.

Instead of Troi and Wesley, they could have created characters with come sort of use, such as visiting planets or defending the ship
I hate to admit it but I get why those characters were made and given so much time, they add another side to the show.
Troi is the balance to the men on the bridge, not just her gender but her personality and attitude.
Wesley is the underdog character, that and he's a kid. It helps soften the show and makes it more accessable. It shows the human side of the crew when they deal with him.
At least that's how I always saw it.

[Mikman]

Chewbacca would smash Spock. He's too strong.

I understand that they needed more female roles on TNG, but why not make useful characters. Troi never did any psychological activity.

[Winnebagel]

I'm not sure if he refused promotions but he sure made it well known that he didn't want to be promoted(he never really wanted to be there at all). Besides, I thought Mitchell was better anyways.

Some of it with Jack, is he had had a record of insubordination, so he was not exactly picked for immediate promotion (same thing with Sheppard). Eventually when Jack saved the world enough times, he started to get pushed upwards. If I had to choose, I would also lean slightly towards Mitchell's optimism over Jack's salty nature (though Jack is still cool). I also like Jonas Quinn for many of the same reasons I like Cam Mitchell.

Also, Kirk didn't always pass up promotions. In the films he had been promoted to Admiral and hated it. He only became Captain again when he was demoted in ST: IV because he stole a ship and broke tons of regulations to save Spock (in ST: III). The demotion was ultimately the greatest gift the Federation could give Kirk, but he and the crew had just saved the entire universe from collapse, so I guess it's cool.

About Chewbacca vs Spock, I'd put money on Spock. Bacca would charge and spock would calmly drop him to the floor.

That was my point exactly. Chewie was very strong, but not really much of a fighter except in a raw power sense. Spock was very trained, and much tougher than he looked. He could easily avoid Chewie's slow punch and then neck pinch him before he could say, "Lederhosen".

Frankly, Chewie was not even as tough as a lot of Klingons who were also better trained, yet Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Picard were able to defeat them hand-to-hand.

Never saw a Vulcan rip a person's arms off.
You didn't see it because you were unconcious from the nerve pinch. Vulcan's prefer to surgically remove someone's arm after someone is unconcious. It's much more logical that way. ;)

Han Solo would beat Kirk. Has anyone seen Kirk fight. He fights like the A-team.
That's cool, but at least Kirk fought. The difference between Kirk and the A-Team, is that when Kirk blows someone up, they die. They don't crawl out of the exploded car comopletely unharmed.

Han could only shoot a gun. He never fought hand to hand at all. Any time things would get close range, Han would surrender, get captured and/or tortured, or imprisoned. Pretty good fighter there.

One thing about the original series that became repetetive was how Kirk frequently "died" and "returned to life."

What do you base this one? Have you actually watched the show? For the record, Kirk never died and was resurrected in the show at all. Other characters like Bones and Scotty did a few times, but not Kirk. Have you just seen clips? Some people get confused on this issue, as they have seen a clip of Bones saying "He's dead! The Captain is dead!", but that is from an episode {Amok Time} where Bones faked Kirk's death to save his life. Other than that, Kirk was split into two distinct personalities, duplicated as an android, and put into the body of a woman, but no death and resurrections. I know Kirk may seem almost as great as Jesus sometimes (I can understand where you're coming from there), but he's a different character. :q

Also, I never understood why in Star Trek the captain and his highest-ranking officers always visited the most dangerous planets. I understand that in the original series they couldn't hire many actors, but they could have in the later series.

In TNG they reference this over and over again. Picard did not go down to planets on the away team as a standard rule, but he would often go there for diplomatic reasons. Part of Riker's responsibility was leading the teams, so that the Captain would not have to take the risk.

In TOS, Kirk would go because the series was more based on things like Horatio Hornblower, which happened in the old seafaring days when Captains would often go ashore to take care of business.

I think requiring some one to view every single episode of a series before forming an opinion of a show is moronic.

I agree with you on that T. My point was, when someone claims they are tired of something a show does over and over, when in fact the show never did it at all, it slightly invalidates the argument being put out there.

In general, I agree that people should not have to watch every episode of something to form an opinion, but if someone tries to make an argument for what a show does or doesn't do, then that person should get the facts straight. We nerds demand it. :arrogant:

[Mikman]

Kirk still should have fought better. His fighting was so bad, it was quite embarassing. He and his crew should be able to take someone down in less than a minute.

Even if Spock could avoid Chewbacca's attacks, he would cause very little harm to Chewbacca. His small hands could never pinch Chewbacca's thick neck. Besides, how could Spock trip Chewbacca.

The first officer shouldn't visit a planet, either. There should be crewmen specialized to form away teams. He or she shouldn't even be on the bridge on the same time as the captain. His or her whole purpose is to relieve the captain, not reiterate orders. And why was Troi on the bridge?

When I said "died" and "returned to life," the quotations meant that he just pretended to die. He did in "Amok Time," "The Tholian Web," and "The Enterprise Incident."

[Winnebagel]

Kirk still should have fought better. His fighting was so bad, it was quite embarassing. He and his crew should be able to take someone down in less than a minute.

For some fun Kirk-Fu action, check, out Errand of Mercy. In the end of the episode he single handedly subdues an entire room of Klingons. Another good one is, Arena where Kirk beats 3 opponents simultaneously (with 100% of the stunts being done by Willam Shatner incidentally). Also, Kirk's main skill above everything else was his mind. His use of psychology in battle typically did not require him to get his hands dirty at all because he out smarted his foes most of the time.

Even if Spock could avoid Chewbacca's attacks, he would cause very little harm to Chewbacca. His small hands could never pinch Chewbacca's thick neck. Besides, how could Spock trip Chewbacca.

I think you are underestimating the strength of a Vulcan. They are several times stronger than humans (which is also mentioned many times in the series), so Spock could probably skip the nerve pinch and just crush Chewie's skull tween his hands while doing the Vulcan salute.

Chewie is basically a big dumb bear who possesses incredible strength. He is very slow otherwise. The only reason he could ever throw a stormtrooper is because they would just stand there while he threw them.

Spock would not have to trip him at all. He would just have to duck his punch and then nerve pinch his neck and crush his skull from behind before the big walking carpet knew what hit him.


There should be crewmen specialized to form away teams. He or she shouldn't even be on the bridge on the same time as the captain. His or her whole purpose is to relieve the captain, not reiterate orders. And why was Troi on the bridge?

There is a crewman specialized to form an away team: the First Officer. Just because it doesn't completely line up with how it is done today, doesn't mean it doesn't work in the Federation. Also, there are other types of aways teams (i.e. Science teams, Medical teams, etc.) which are headed up by people of that field. Most episodes focus on first contact types of missions, so there would naturally be a member of the command division present.

Troi is on the bridge because she is hot, and because of what DB said earlier: she was there as a diplomatic advantage, as she could read the emotions of races/beings Picard was talking to. >:D

When I said "died" and "returned to life," the quotations meant that he just pretended to die. He did in "Amok Time," "The Tholian Web," and "The Enterprise Incident."

He only pretended to die in "Amok Time", and this was so Spock could save face with the Vulcan government.

In "The Tholian Web" he was out of phase, and the crew thought he had genuinely died. He wasn't pretending in this case.

In "The Enterprise Incident" he did pretend to die, but only as a ruse, so Spock could gain the trust of and ultimately infiltrate the Romulans on a espionage mission. That made it a good story IMHO.

[Kong]

I used to work for Microsoft. Each position was given a rank and number of points. So my position would have been a 1 or something low and Bill Gates would be something high like 10,000. When doing something dangerous like flying an airplane you could only have a certain number of points gathered together. That way if the plane goes down Microsoft can continue on without losing all star employees in one single accident. Because I was low ranking and never had to fly or anything the rule never applied to me so I don't know exactly how it worked but the theory is you shouldn't put all of your most valuable employees in harms way all at once.

Also they choose their office locations the same way. Example in case Redmond is wiped out by an earthquake they want to have another office in Dallas. And in case Dallas is wiped out by a tornado they want to have another office in North Carolinia.

It is called suspension of disbelief. Of course Kirk shouldn't have gone on every away mission but it is more entertaining that he did. Also in reality there would be 3 or 4 crews. No way can a single crew maintain a ship 24/7. And the ship design has no point in space. A plain box like the Borgs is the most practical design.

There is supposed to be a parody staring the secondary and lower deck crews of the Enterprise with the same plots and time line of TOS just on Kirk's crew's off shift. I really want to see it. Anyone know the name?

[Dudebro]

Kirk still should have fought better. His fighting was so bad, it was quite embarassing. He and his crew should be able to take someone down in less than a minute.You can't be serious? TOS is an entirely different show. That's like saying Adam Wests Batman wasn't a good fighter. I mean yeah he was a horrible fighter but IT'S A CAMPY TV SHOW. I don't understand why you keep comparing it to reality. Star Trek(and Batman) decided to move away from the non serious stuff and now it's more realistic and they can actually fight(but still kinda dorky in that Star Trek style).

Bottomline is Kirk and TOS should not be compared to the newer shows or reality, it was camp on purpose.

And why was Troi on the bridge?Like WB said, eyecandy, but she was also useful. When dealing with suspect aliens she could warn the captain about their intentions afterwards.
I think she was made in an attempt to split the Spock character into two parts, Data being the other half. She does what Spock would do with Kirk, warn him when he's letting emotion influence his decisions and to add their insight into events on the show. Data was the obvious logical side of Spock but he certainly lacks Spocks human side.
At least that what I think.

[lolzfest413]

Han Solo hands down....

[Winnebagel]

Han Solo hands down....

Hands down indeed. He would never get the chance to draw. ;)

---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

You can't be serious? TOS is an entirely different show. That's like saying Adam Wests Batman wasn't a good fighter. I mean yeah he was a horrible fighter but IT'S A CAMPY TV SHOW. I don't understand why you keep comparing it to reality. Star Trek(and Batman) decided to move away from the non serious stuff and now it's more realistic and they can actually fight(but still kinda dorky in that Star Trek style).

Bottomline is Kirk and TOS should not be compared to the newer shows or reality, it was camp on purpose.

I agree TOS was campy, but it did reflect the 60's when pretty much everything was.

The one thing that I think a lot of people don't give TOS enough credit for anymore, is tat it was hugely influential in shaping the culture of the day. Let's not forget that even though the style reflected the 60's camp, the show was still dealing with social issues and pushing ideas of diversity and tolerence long long before it was en vogue to do so. Now it's the expected norm, but Trek was breaking the glass ceilings and trailblazing these ideas when many people didn't want to hear about it.

For those who don't know, TOS featured the first interacial kiss in U.S. T.V. history. Gene Roddenberry was almost because he pushed for it to stay in the episode (when studios wanted to cut it).

Anyway, even if styles change over time, the core ideas of Trek have always stayed the same.


(QUOTE]Like WB said, eyecandy, but she was also useful. When dealing with suspect aliens she could warn the captain about their intentions afterwards.
I think she was made in an attempt to split the Spock character into two parts, Data being the other half. She does what Spock would do with Kirk, warn him when he's letting emotion influence his decisions and to add their insight into events on the show. Data was the obvious logical side of Spock but he certainly lacks Spocks human side.
At least that what I think.[/QUOTE]

And what candy it was. I remember a period of a few years when Marina Sirtis was the object of many a lad's (and lasses' if so inclined) affection. I think I still have that poster somewhere. :love:

True on the split of the two characters. Also, the idea of a ships' counselor was tried in the second pilot of Star Trek (Where No Man Has Gone Before), but it didn't appear again until TNG.

[Mikman]

If Star Trek is supposed to be based in a progressive society, why is Troi simply there to be pretty? And why did she never use her powers when they really needed it? All she did was reveal emotions that were obvious to the rest. Guinan did more counselling that Troi. Why wasn't she shown more? Star Trek should have stronger, more productive, higher-ranking female characters.

Data and Riker were derived from Spock, not Data and Troi (at least, that'swhat I think).

The first officer is supposed to relieve the captain, not enter dangerous situations.

I did like "Errand of Mercy." The action and the storyline were quite interesting.

Chewbacca is still too powerful for Spock.

[Dudebro]

If Star Trek is supposed to be based in a progressive society, why is Troi simply there to be pretty?
Are you an android or something? We mean eyecandy for the viewer. I suppose they could've cast a troll like woman for the role simply on her acting skills but that's not how the industry works. Looks first then skill.
That being said I think you're being totally ridiculous about her character. Out of all the minor flaws you seem unnaturally fixated on her, why is that?

[Winnebagel]

All she did was reveal emotions that were obvious to the rest. Guinan did more counselling that Troi. Why wasn't she shown more?

There are a lot of episodes where Troi is specifically shown counseling many different crew members. As much as I like Guinan, she wasn't even in every season of the show. Troi was shown counseling people in pretty much every season of the show. Not sure why you would think she didn't counsel people often.

Star Trek should have stronger, more productive, higher-ranking female characters.

There was a character named Katherine Janeway that seemed fairly female to me, and she was a good strong leader.


Data and Riker were derived from Spock, not Data and Troi (at least, that's what I think).

While I respect your opinion, I have to disagree once more.

Generally speaking, I see the splits like this:

Troi/Data = Spock (the counselor + the logic)

Picard/Riker = Kirk (the tactical mind + the passionate romantic)

The first officer is supposed to relieve the captain, not enter dangerous situations.

That might be true in the current military, but not in the Federation.

Chewbacca is still too powerful for Spock.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I still think Spock is about as strong and much much faster/more skilled than the big teddy bear. ;)

[asher]

I'm undecided on the whole Spock, Chewbacca issue.

[the_riesen]

you are all forgeting DATA vs. C3PO
DATA would win.....even if it was R2D2
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p277/the_riesen/dadv.jpg

[DoctorRyanB1]

Maybe we should ask Capcom to make a fighting game of this. I can see it now..........Captain Kirk with a 20 Hit Uppercut to Luke Skywalker's head.:D

[Kong]

What about Data vs Kirk, Spock, Chewbaca and Han?

If Star Trek is supposed to be based in a progressive society, why is Troi simply there to be pretty? Because the audience is our society.

All she did was reveal emotions that were obvious to the rest. It was a plot device to explain to the audience what was going on. I haven't watched much Star Trek but I imaging Picard never said, yeah Troi, we all knew that. Troi's comments were probably always scripted to be very revealing to the rest of the crew.

Guinan did more counselling that Troi. Why wasn't she shown more? Whopie was probably on the show as much as she wanted to be.

The first officer is supposed to relieve the captain, not enter dangerous situations.I think you are misunderstanding Suspension of disbelief - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a crucial part of nearly all fiction especially sci-fi.

[Winnebagel]

I'm undecided on the whole Spock, Chewbacca issue.

That's okay Asher. The way things have been going back and forth, you will probably still have time to decide your viewpoint before. :)

[JKool]

I'm undecided on the whole Spock, Chewbacca issue.

What's there to be undecided about? Spock would own chewie the giant walking carpet.

[Winnebagel]

Because the audience is our society.

Good point. Television doesn't always have to be completely realistic, but hopefully good T.V. will be entertaining.

It was a plot device to explain to the audience what was going on. I haven't watched much Star Trek but I imaging Picard never said, yeah Troi, we all knew that. Troi's comments were probably always scripted to be very revealing to the rest of the crew.

You're right. Troi would often have insights into a person's level of truthfulness, as she could sense their emotions. She was almost like a super lie detector in that regard. The way the show explained it, she was from a race of people who could completely read the minds of others, but since she was half-human, her powers were diluted some what. She could just read emotions, but this still came in handy.

Whopie was probably on the show as much as she wanted to be.

I think that's probably true as well.

Guinan was a very interesting character, and I will give this much to Mikman, in TNG Picard was probably shown to get advice from Guinan more often than Troi, but he was the main character to do so. I think it was more to support the idea that some people tell their bartender things they wouldn't even tell their psychiatrist.

Also, there was a certain mystique about Guinan because she was from this very old alien race. Honestly, she was more like Yoda or something in that regard. Not in a warrior sense, but in an ancient wise being sense.

[Mikman]

I should have remembered Voyager It and Deep Space 9 were more progressive that TNG. How can you be idealistic when you appeal to the present day audience in a less moralistic way?

Data would defeat C-3PO.

Chewbacca is still too strong for Spock.

[the_riesen]

I don't know...I'm more of a star trek fan because it is actual science fiction unlike star wars. Star wars is more like fantasy.

Also Star Trek has the Q continuum, which pretty much smokes any jedi's or sith. :P

[JKool]

I don't know...I'm more of a star trek fan because it is actual science fiction unlike star wars. Star wars is more like fantasy.

Also Star Trek has the Q continuum, which pretty much smokes any jedi's or sith. :P

I agree with you Star Wars is more like fantasy then sci-fi

[Mikman]

Praise the Lord, someone finally has some sense! Thank you, the_riesen, for agreeing that Star Wars is not sci-fi. Sci-fi is supposed to be based on a theoretical idea, while fantasy is supposed to be based on an unrealistic concept. Star Wars is the latter.

Q could beat any Jedi or Sith.

[Kong]

How can you be idealistic when you appeal to the present day audience in a less moralistic way?
Are you being serious?

Sci-fi is supposed to be based on a theoretical idea, while fantasy is supposed to be based on an unrealistic concept.
Space ships, robots, light sabers, laser guns, darth vader, on and on.
Q could beat any Jedi or Sith.
Didn't Picard and crew beat him several times? If so then I wouldn't say it is a given that he could beat any Jedi or Sith.

[Shades]

Spock happens to be more important than Chewbacca, too.

That's like asking us who would win between Sonic and Birdo.

http://mike.shaftedstudents.com/images/Sonic1.JPG http://mario.neoseeker.com/w/i/mario/b/b0/Birdomkw.jpg

Sorry, comment on an older post.

[Kong]

Spock happens to be more important than Chewbacca, too.This is true. Sadly in TV you always bet against the minor characters. The stars always win. And since Star Trek always uses those weak time traveling plot devices we know spot lives to be an old man. He must have won.

[Shades]

Which is pretty crazy, concerning that Chewbacca could rip Spock into tiny pieces in a matter of minutes.

[Mikman]

If you know Chewbacca would win, why would you vote for Spock simply because he is more important.

Just saying that you have laser guns and spaceships doesn't make it science fiction. You have to try to explain it with some sort of scientific principle. Anything otherwise is fantasy.

[the_riesen]

Q "lost" at his games....he played games because he wanted to know why humans would eventually surpass their power in the super distant future.

and star wars says A LONG LONG TIME AGO.....yet they have futuristic ideals and weapons lol

i agree with mikman

[Kugyince]

Are you guys really discussing who would win in a fight between a Star Trek and Star Wars character?

Step back and think about that for a moment.

[Winnebagel]

Are you guys really discussing who would win in a fight between a Star Trek and Star Wars character?

Step back and think about that for a moment.

Some would argue that it is as valid a discussion as all of the religious debates that seem to take place around here. At least this is a more entertaining topic. ;)

By the way, in most cases we have mentioned the Star Trek character would win. However, in hand to hand combat, Luke Skywalker would own everyone in both universes.

[Dudebro]

you are all forgeting DATA vs. C3PO
It's not even a contest, Data would destroy C3PO(considering he's not a combat droid and he can barely walk as it is). Even with the force I think most Jedi/Sith would be hard pressed to handle Data. He's not stiff and awkward like the majority of Droids in the SW universe. I think the only one that would stand a chance is Grievous. Even then I think Data would win, he's shown how quick his reflexes are and if Grievous was so easily beaten by one Jedi I think it's safe to say Data would make short work of him. Also-
YouTube - data pwns klingons
That video makes me :lol: everytime. It's a pretty good indication of his strength I'd say.

Didn't Picard and crew beat him several times? If so then I wouldn't say it is a given that he could beat any Jedi or Sith. I wouldn't say anyone beat the Q in any meaningful way, it's more like they got him to stop eventually.
For those who don't know the Q are basically demigods. There is no comparison in the Star Wars universe that I know of. Q could literally wipe out the entire Jedi/Sith orders without breaking a sweat or them even knowing he was there, blinked out of exsistence so to speak.
Picard and Riker were able to deal with Q because he had a fondness for them and viewed them as representing the human race and the federation. At one point he even considered elevating Riker into the Q but of course he declined because it was promotion, Star Fleet officers always refuse advancement!



Guinan was a very interesting character, and I will give this much to Mikman, in TNG Picard was probably shown to get advice from Guinan more often than Troi, but he was the main character to do so. I think it was more to support the idea that some people tell their bartender things they wouldn't even tell their psychiatrist.

Also, there was a certain mystique about Guinan because she was from this very old alien race. Honestly, she was more like Yoda or something in that regard. Not in a warrior sense, but in an ancient wise being sense.
The difference is Picard and others would seek out Guinan for her wisdom and Troi would seek out/speak out to others with hers. Just two different versions of the same support character.


Just saying that you have laser guns and spaceships doesn't make it science fiction. You have to try to explain it with some sort of scientific principle. Anything otherwise is fantasy in my opinion.
You keep forgetting that bolded part.
Not many Sci Fi stories/shows/movies actually explain the science behind it. Your definition would mean there's very few true sci fi movies and a huge amount of fantasy.
I think it's unfair to lump fictional science with swords and sorcery but I guess you don't mind mixing all kinds of stuff in fantasy as long as sci fi meets your ultra strict standards. Seems like a double standard to me.


Are you guys really discussing who would win in a fight between a Star Trek and Star Wars character?

Step back and think about that for a moment.
I think you're taking it too seriously. Yeah it's like nerd central in here but at least everyone's enjoying themselves.

I was thinking this should get moved to chat but there is a valid debate since there's established canon for both franchises.
While typing this I decided it's best to move it though since it's really not controversial unless you're specifically into this kind of thing, even then it's pushing it. Does anyone have a good reason to keep it here?

[Winnebagel]

Oh, I don't know. I think it's about as valid Canada vs America, The End of the World, or Talking to the Dead. I don't care where it is, but if we seriously think about it, most of the debate topics are in fun it seems.

[Kugyince]

Allow me to derail by suggesting we get rid of debate all together.

[Dudebro]

I wouldn't care as long as we can still debate touchy subjects.

[Kugyince]

Get rid of junk and debate.

Lock or delete offtopic threads/posts. Simple and easy.

[Winnebagel]

So, what would the best way to do this be, put everything in chat?

[Dudebro]

I don't like being so strict on off topic stuff. If we're going to enforce on topic then we will need a place for off topic.

[willmadude]

i cant belive this debate has gone on this long, b/c chewie would kill anyone on star track except maybe data b/c well hes not alive lmao

[Winnebagel]

i cant belive this debate has gone on this long, b/c chewie would kill anyone on star track except maybe data b/c well hes not alive lmao

It's gone on because it's very obvious that Chewie can't fight at all. He's just a strong bear type creature. Any one with any kind of fighting skill could easily beat the wookie. They only character in Star Track that the wookie could beat is generic red shirt people. That goes for about anyone in the Star Wars universe as well except for Jedi/Sith.

[Shades]

If you know Chewbacca would win, why would you vote for Spock simply because he is more important.

I didn't vote for him. If the fight were ever published, Spock would win for that reason. Also, we know Spock grows to be an old man (or whatever he is), so it was determined that he would survive.

[willmadude]

lol, at a loss for words im laughing so hard, i only said that to see who i could riel up...guess i got my answer.

[Winnebagel]

lol, at a loss for words im laughing so hard, i only said that to see who i could riel up...guess i got my answer.

Awww don't quit too soon. Plenty of fun to go around. I fully acknowledge that Chewbacca is strong, but he only really had two moves where he picks up someone and throws them or chokes them. Otherwise, he's a very slow creature that couldn't hurt an Ewok unless they stood still.

[willmadude]

Awww don't quit too soon. Plenty of fun to go around. I fully acknowledge that Chewbacca is strong, but he only really had two moves where he picks up someone and throws them or chokes them. Otherwise, he's a very slow creature that couldn't hurt an Ewok unless they stood still.
aaaaaaaaahahahhaha ROTFL...because i know its true but how about that jaba the hut? lmfao i think chewie could take him

[Shades]

aaaaaaaaahahahhaha ROTFL...because i know its true but how about that jaba the hut? lmfao i think chewie could take him

What would Chewbacca do to Jabba? Punch him? For an hour?

[Winnebagel]

aaaaaaaaahahahhaha ROTFL...because i know its true but how about that jaba the hut? lmfao i think chewie could take him

Excellent point! I think Chewie could take Jabba out easily because Jabba couldn't slither away fast enough. Chewie should be able to apply the choke special move before Jabba died of cardiac arrest due to all the fatty foods he consumed. ;)

[willmadude]

okay i cant read this anymore or im going to die of cardiac arrest just like jabba

[Shades]

okay i cant read this anymore or im going to die of cardiac arrest just like jabba

You might want to get that checked.

[Winnebagel]

okay i cant read this anymore or im going to die of cardiac arrest just like jabba

Be strong. Run like an Ewok escaping the mighty Chewie to build up that heart.

[Shades]

Be strong. Run like an Ewok escaping the mighty Chewie to build up that heart.

+1

[willmadude]

i cant im just a peice of meat...or have you not seen the picture of me right next to this post?

[Dudebro]

And now it's time to move this.

[Winnebagel]

i cant im just a peice of meat...or have you not seen the picture of me right next to this post?

Don't give up. You can do it! Even meat can get stronger and tougher. Fight on.

Maybe play some Clone Wars light saber fighting or the Chewbacca Wack Ewok on the Wii.

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

And now it's time to move this.

So we finally hit the point where we have descended too far into silliness. Good job everyone.

Spock would still take out Chewbacca, and good night to you all. :)

[Dudebro]

Yeah any attempt to remain a serious debate went out the window quickly. We can still get our nerdrage on but chatting is fine now too. Let's try to keep it SW/ST related at least ok?

[Mikman]

I won't argue here about whether Star Wars is sci-fi or fantasy. I still believe it isn't, and I don't think that my ideas about sci-fi are too strict. But, that's done.

Jabba the Hutt is quite thick, but he can't fight, so Chewbacca would just pummel and claw at Jabba until he died. Or, he could just blast him with a laser gun.

[zarny]

Chewie can beat anyone!

[Winnebagel]

I won't argue here about whether Star Wars is sci-fi or fantasy. I still believe it isn't, and I don't think that my ideas about sci-fi are too strict. But, that's done.

Jabba the Hutt is quite thick, but he can't fight, so Chewbacca would just pummel and claw at Jabba until he died. Or, he could just blast him with a laser gun.

On that I agree with you. Chewie would totally own Jabba.

[Mikman]

Just remember, I only decided to end the argument because I didn't want to end the topic (it does say "a long, long time ago").

Thank you, Winnebagel, for agreeing with me.

[Dudebro]

The topic wouldn't end if we continued to debate how wrong you are. It would just get annoying and less people would post in here.

[zarny]

HAHA, it's funny when you two fight about Star Wars.

[the_riesen]

wow i think spock would win...all he would have to do is mind-meld with luke or obi-wan and he'd know the secrets of the force.

[zarny]

Luke and Obi-wan can use the force to throw Spock away when he tries to mind meld them.

[Mikman]

The topic wouldn't end if we continued to debate how wrong you are.

I was debating how wrong you are (very, in my opinion).:D

I like Spock, but he can't defeat someone with some sort of powerful magic, like the Force. Unless, of course, he tries to throw them off with a discussion about logic. However, Luke could override him with a Jedi mind trick.

[Winnebagel]

I was debating how wrong you are (very, in my opinion).:D

I like Spock, but he can't defeat someone with some sort of powerful magic, like the Force. Unless, of course, he tries to throw them off with a discussion about logic. However, Luke could override him with a Jedi mind trick.

I have to say I agree with you Mikman. That's twice in a row. We better be careful or the universe might implode.

Spock could easily beat a wookie, as Spock is smarter, faster, and about as strong or stronger than Chewbacca (Vulcans being many times stronger than humans as established in TOS).

Defeating one of, if not the, most powerful Jedi to ever traverse the stars, is another matter altogether. By the time Luke finally became a Jedi he was enormously powerful (more powerful even than Vader). If somehow Luke's Force powers could be suppressed, then my money would be on Spock, but if not, Spock would have no chance.

[Dudebro]

I would just like to point out that the Jedi mind trick didn't work on many races, I'm sure Vulcans would be one of them if they coexsisted.

[Winnebagel]

I would just like to point out that the Jedi mind trick didn't work on many races, I'm sure Vulcans would be one of them if they coexsisted.

Agreed. I don't think that would work on Spock. However, I don't think Spock could fight against a lightsaber.

[Shades]

Or the force. It just seems like Luke would have an advantage too big, too early for Spock to have a chance.

Now, Spock vs. Chewie? Yeah, I don't know. There are some variables that would have to be predetermined.

[Mikman]

I agree that Spock has a better chance against Chewbacca than against Luke or Obi-Wan. I do think now, though, that Spock could resist a Jedi mind trick. If idiots like the Hutts and the Toydarians can resist it, Vulcans probably can. However, a lightsaber or a lightning bolt would take him down.

That's thrice in a row, Winnebagel. Do you think that we should say good-bye to the universe, or do you want to go forice?

[Winnebagel]

That's thrice in a row, Winnebagel. Do you think that we should say good-bye to the universe, or do you want to go forice?

I know. We have to be careful, or we could end up destroying reality itself.

I'll try my best to help balance things out. One factor I didn't mention before is that if Spock is allowed to have a phaser it could change the outcome.

Phasers, with their multiple settings and configurations, have been shown to to be much more effective than a basic Star Wars blaster. Luke has been shown to be particularly adept at deflecting blaster bolts (and even disintegration rays in the case of Boba Fett); however, there is no guarantee that a lightsaber could deflect a phase beam from a phaser.

In addition, if Spock set the phaser on the groud and set it to a wide beam, he might be able to stun or kill the Jedi no matter if Luke knew it was coming in or not.

If Spock was only allowed to use a basic beam, than my money would be on Luke, but if he could use a wide beam, he might be able to take the fight. This would technically be true with anyone in the Federation. However, most would be susceptible to Jedi mind tricks and would never shoot the phaser. Having said that, several strong minded individuals like Spock, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Troi, Data, Worf, and Archer could probably over ride this and take the phaser shot.

[Dudebro]

Why the focus on spock vs jedi? Out of everyone in the Star Trek universe(besides Q) I'd say Data would stand the best chance. Spock is cool and all but he is limited by being organic, Data is just faster, smarter and stronger.
That being said I think Data could take a jedi/sith 1v1 but any more than that and he'd probably lose unless he was using a lightsaber as well.

Yeah, Data with a Lightsaber, I went there.

[Winnebagel]

Why the focus on spock vs jedi? Out of everyone in the Star Trek universe(besides Q) I'd say Data would stand the best chance. Spock is cool and all but he is limited by being organic, Data is just faster, smarter and stronger.
That being said I think Data could take a jedi/sith 1v1 but any more than that and he'd probably lose unless he was using a lightsaber as well.

The earlier premise was Spock vs Chewbacca which morphed into Spock vs everyone. However, in my last scenario, I did mention Data and various other individuals.

Yeah, Data with a Lightsaber, I went there.

That would be very cool actually.

[jim5cents]

but why spock? why not kirk? sure, he gets manhandled by everyone, but 1. he is like the energizer bunny, he just keeps coming at you. 2. he has on multiple occasions proven himself to be highly resourcful.

plus if you give him a red shirt as a teammate, he is unstoppable.

red shirt distracts jedi/sith, gets killed, kirk sneaks up behind and delivers a neck crushing judo chop.

[Winnebagel]

but why spock? why not kirk? sure, he gets manhandled by everyone, but 1. he is like the energizer bunny, he just keeps coming at you. 2. he has on multiple occasions proven himself to be highly resourcful.

plus if you give him a red shirt as a teammate, he is unstoppable.

red shirt distracts jedi/sith, gets killed, kirk sneaks up behind and delivers a neck crushing judo chop.

Spock was the original one mentioned.

Believe me, if Luke didn't have the saber, Kirk would completely own him. Also, if someone managed to rip Kirk's shirt, the fight would be over because Kirk becomes invincible at that point.

[jim5cents]

http://www.reds-world.com/.a/6a00d8341e053453ef0115701aaa60970c-800wi

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-4/hulk-hogan-ripping-shirt.jpg

i wonder if they were related?

[the_riesen]

Spock probably wouldn't fight unless it was completly Logical lol

Worf vs. Chewbacca would be a good fight lol

[Shades]

I think if Chewie started playing Spock a fool, it would be logical to start a fight.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z1/Gin_Baedon/spock.jpg

[the_riesen]

yeah i guess so... i mean he is half human so maybe that would kick in :D

[Mikman]

Chewbacca would beat Worf. Worf is tough but there are too many times where he seems weaker than he should be.

Luke Skywalker would slice through Data.

[zarny]

I agree with you Mikman.

[asher]

Data might as well be the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz, I mean luke has the Force and a Lightsaber,besides Data couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. The only reason everyone thinks Data would win is because You are all biased toward Star Trek because, after all, it is superior in some ways, but Star Wars is a galaxy more entertaining than TNG, yet TNG is more scientific (but it's still not THAT scientific).

[Winnebagel]

Data might as well be the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz, I mean luke has the Force and a Lightsaber,besides Data couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. The only reason everyone thinks Data would win is because You are all biased toward Star Trek because, after all, it is superior in some ways, but Star Wars is a galaxy more entertaining than TNG, yet TNG is more scientific (but it's still not THAT scientific).

I don't think it's bias. I have also never seen the Tin Man move at this speed:

YouTube - Data is honest + super speed (Star Trek: TNG)

Or possess this kind of strength (check the 1:45 mark for the example):

YouTube - Data's specifications (Star Trek: TNG)

Or this: YouTube - Data shows super strength (Star Trek: TNG)


The point about Data is that he is not just some simple robot, but the most advanced cybernetic being ever created. I think would probably be able to beat a Terminator as well if put to the test. Having said that, I still think Luke would win if allowed to use a light saber, but if Data was given one too, it would be an interesting battle.

Without a saber, Data could probably take Luke out due to Data's sheer speed and processing power.

As far as story, I think that Star Trek is a richer universe, but mainly because it has had the opportunity to develop over hundreds of hours of television.

I still love Star Wars, and whether it is ever deemed to be Science Fiction (it is Sci-Fi by the modern definition, but I don't think it's Science Fiction. It is Sci-Fi which is not the same thing.), I love its deep roots in mythology which is just different from Trek.

I think there is a place for both, but I hope we can all agree that Data would beat C-3PO. ;)

[the_riesen]

Yeah Data is awesome because physically and mentally he is superior to all but is very childish when it comes to wisdom and emotions :D...........

[DrunkN]

Well, assuming it's Luke by the time he's learned to use the force, or had a lightsaber, he would probably win. Otherwise Data would pulverize him.

[Dudebro]

Does it bother anyone else that Luke Skywalker is supposed to be so powerful when in the movies he can barely do basic Jedi moves? Yeah he's supposed to be the chosen one or whatever but when compared with the newer movies Luke looks like a punk.

I know there's a lot more story about the Skywalkers in the books but I never read them. I did get bored and read about it on Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) though.
Luke go on to be a very powerful Jedi and his family carries on with that pretty much. He's not a bad character overall but in the movies he's such a whiny little bitch and I can't stand it.

So yeah about the topic, Data would beat Luke Skywalker with or without the lightsaber if we're talking about Mark Hamills portrayal of Luke.:lol:

[DrunkN]

Does it bother anyone else that Luke Skywalker is supposed to be so powerful when in the movies he can barely do basic Jedi moves? Yeah he's supposed to be the chosen one or whatever but when compared with the newer movies Luke looks like a punk.
Well don't you think if they had cgi and sets for (edit:more) epic jedi effects they would have used them?

Why does nobody every consider the director :doh:

[Dudebro]

Don't get me wrong I understand why everything is so ghetto in the old movies. I'm just saying it's annoying how they make him out to be such a powerful Jedi and all we've seen is him get beat by his dad and Yoda having no faith in his noob jedi skills, I think Yoda even threw in a facepalm in that scene.

[Mikman]

I agree that Data would beat C-3PO. I'm not so sure about the Terminator.

The reason that Luke was never shown to have so many powers is because George Lucas hadn't invented most of the powers. In A New Hope, the Force simply had a mental influence over people. The only telekinetic power shown there was the force choke. Not until Empire and Jedi did we see other telekinetic powers and electrokinesis, and not until the prequel trilogy did we see superhuman speed and hear about healing powers. Lucas made up a lot of it as he went along.

Terminator vs Robocop: who would win?

[DrunkN]

Terminator vs Robocop: who would win?
Robocop

If Sarah Conner can kill a terminator, so can Data.

[Smittycal]

I dont think that the slow moving as hell Robo Cop could take out the smooth moving female Terminator that can make Plasma weapons with her hands.

Data could probably take out the Arnold model...maybe even the T 2 model (liquid metal guy) but I dont think he could hang with any of the more advanced models of Terminators.

What about a BORG collective Vs. All of the Terminators and Robo Cop put together lol..

Ownage?

[the_riesen]

Data would own a terminator....He's like a T-(TEN TRILLION)

[DrunkN]

female Terminator that can make Plasma weapons with her hands.
I doubt that would kill Robocop, maybe knock him back but...I'm not the expert on plasma, last thing I heard about it was that it floats in your blood.xxp

[the_riesen]

John Conner (T2) vs. Wesley Crusher
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p277/the_riesen/vs1.jpg

[zarny]

John Conner isn't from Star Wars.

[DrunkN]

John Conner isn't from Star Wars.
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/6286/14lt5.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

Here's that same pic zoomed out
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:oB9NuE6U1It2uM:http://bum.net/pics/facepalm-combo.jpg

[the_riesen]

John Conner isn't from Star Wars.


http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/P4_dGtBeDg4/default.jpg

[DrunkN]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/P4_dGtBeDg4/default.jpg
+rep

[zarny]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/P4_dGtBeDg4/default.jpg

What's that suppose to mean?

[samejamesbond]

What's that suppose to mean?


http://knowyourmeme.com/i/15940/original/Falcon_Facepalm_by_Tradanbattlan.jpg?1252113014

[Mikman]

Why is everyone doing this?

[DrunkN]

Because zarny was being captain obvious.

[zarny]

The thread is suppose to be about Star Trek vs. Star Wars not The Terminator vs. Star Wars!

[the_riesen]

i agree dawg...someone side-tracked the topic by talking about how data would beat any terminators....so i was left with the idea (and joke) of young john connor vs. Wesley crusher(the lamest character EVER imo) LOL

[DrunkN]

The thread is suppose to be about Star Trek vs. Star Wars not The Terminator vs. Star Wars!
You need to relax, threads eventually always come back to their topic. There's no point in making a new topic if it's only going to be a 6 post chat.

[zarny]

i agree dawg...someone side-tracked the topic by talking about how data would beat any terminators....so i was left with the idea (and joke) of young john connor vs. Wesley crusher(the lamest character EVER imo) LOL

Oh, okay.
Lol, that is pretty funny.

[Mikman]

i agree dawg...someone side-tracked the topic by talking about how data would beat any terminators....so i was left with the idea (and joke) of young john connor vs. Wesley crusher(the lamest character EVER imo) LOL

I agree. Wesley was lame (not as lame as troy, but still lame).

I also agree that we need to be somewhat flexible in our topic.

John Connor would beat Wesley.

Q would beat everyone in Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Robocop and the Terminator,:cute:

[the_riesen]

I agree. Wesley was lame (not as lame as troy, but still lame).

Q would beat everyone in Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Robocop and the Terminator,:cute:


Troy has boobs, so she's 2x less lame already :D


The Q continuum....oh my they are 2 strong, good thing they have no real motives it seems lol

[Mikman]

If they did have motives, they would win.

[the_riesen]

although Q does say that humans eventually go on to be more powerful than even the Q. Since star wars doesn't declare them as humans....Star trek humans win

[Mikman]

Your previous comment is quite repulsive.

[DrunkN]

Your previous comment is quite repulsive.
It seems PG-13 enough for me.

Or where you personally offended, Mikman?

[Dudebro]

Yeah I'm lost, why is it repulsive?

[Gamenguru]

Yeah I'm lost, why is it repulsive?

Agreed, DB. I personally have always had the utmost respect for Troy...and her boobs. :worship:

[Kong]

Troy...and her boobs. :worship:Looks like you have your face buried in them.

[Winnebagel]

Looks like you have your face buried in them.

LOL! +1 Those emoticons can be so great!

BTW, mmmmmm Troi! One of a kind. Let me second that: :worship: Further, to quote a famous TNG episode, "Two Moons, Circle".

[Gamenguru]

Looks like you have your face buried in them.

Gave you +1 for that one Kong. Hadn't thought of that when I posted it.

If it were only true I could then die a happy man...lol! As someone once said: "If you gotta go, go with a smile!" :D


[QUOTE=Winnebagel;91652]BTW, mmmmmm Troi!QUOTE]

You are correct Bagel, it is spelled Troi.

[Mikman]

I am leaving this discussion. Apparently, to you, female characters aren't worth much.

[Winnebagel]

I am leaving this discussion. Apparently, to you, female characters aren't worth much.

As I recall, it was you who originally said Troi (a woman) was a useless character. Personally, I don't apologize for finding a beautiful woman attractive, but I also am not afraid to say that Troi was a well written strong female character. She was very intelligent too. Also, she was hot. >:D

[Gamenguru]

I am leaving this discussion. Apparently, to you, female characters aren't worth much.

See ya'. 8)

[Dudebro]

I am leaving this discussion. Apparently, to you, female characters aren't worth much.
Why would you jump to that conclusion? Could it be that actually have no leg to stand on and you're using this as an excuse to bow out of the discussion? If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Btw still waiting to hear what was so repulsive.

[the_riesen]

I dont know if you heard this but anatomicaly speaking.... all females have boobs...i mean i guess guys have them too but women's are way cooler LOLS

YouTube- Scary Movie (PG-13)

[DrunkN]

Apparently, to you, female characters aren't worth much.
So, your playing that card because these guys recognize the existence of female breasts and are stating they find them sexually appealing? I'd say your jumping the gun there.

[Mikman]

What I am saying is that Troi had no importance, that she was just there to be "looked at," and that is offensive and outdated.

[Winnebagel]

What I am saying is that Troi had no importance, that she was just there to be "looked at," and that is offensive and outdated.

That's your opinion. I completely disagree (the universe has attained balance once more). Troi was very important on a day to day basis in helping Picard with negotiations, as well as serving as the primary counselor for a crew of over 1,000 people. I don't see how that is unimportant. Also, she had nice boobs.

What are some examples that you could name that are not "outdated and and offensive"?

[zarny]

Since this thread got out of topic I think I'll bring it back on track.
If Scotty fought Lando who would win?

[OldTimer]

I am almost certain that Scotty would eat Lando.

Are we talking the series Scotty, the old movie Scotty, or the new movie Scotty? There are huge differences.

[Mikman]

Lando would probably beat Scotty. He's not really a fighter, no matter which version. He'd probably need more power!

An example of Star Trek being progressive is it showing various races cooperating in a collective society. Voyager is quite progressive in showing a woman as the captain, not as a perosn who prances around the bridge just to be looked at!

[the_riesen]

uhhh the new movie is a different universe all-together lol...those characters don't count unless we get to see troi's boobs lol

[Mikman]

repulsive

[the_riesen]

repulsive

dude you know i'm just saying it to annoy you now right? LOL

[Kong]

What I am saying is that Troi had no importance, that she was just there to be "looked at," and that is offensive and outdated.


What is outdated about media exploiting women to raise ratings and sells. Have you left your church basement recently?
You are the only one saying Troi has no importance beyond her rack.
We all know your opinion on Troi and The Dark Knight. No need to continue repeating.
Are you trying to troll us?

[Dudebro]

Mikman-
I'm tired of you just outright ignoring everything we say and making things up to suit your opinions. We gave you plenty of reasons why Troi is useful and you disregarded them, that's not our fault it's yours.
I say this a person, not a mod.

repulsiveDon't spam like that again. If you think something is repulsive explain why or don't comment at all. One word answers are not cool. Sometimes we ignore them but under the circumstances I felt the need to warn you how annoying it is.
I say that as a mod and a person.

[Mikman]

Very well, I will answer with better explanations.

Here's why I didn't like Troi. She was rarely ever shown performing any psychiatric activity. She simply pointed out obvious emotions when she could have used here psychic powers to preview dangerous situations. Also, if she was a psychiatrist, why was she on the bridge? Shouldn't she have been in her office?

[Kong]

Plot device. You are completely missing the point that this is a TV show.

[the_riesen]

troi vs Padme......Padme WINS IMO, why you ask?

Cuz i have a serious crush on natalie portman :D

[Slime Slayer]

i hate to bump this thread, but some of you might find this interesting: Never-before-seen 'Star Trek' pilot found - The Live Feed | THR (http://www.thrfeed.com/neverbeforeseen-star-trek-pilot-found.html)

[Winnebagel]

i hate to bump this thread, but some of you might find this interesting: Never-before-seen 'Star Trek' pilot found - The Live Feed | THR (http://www.thrfeed.com/neverbeforeseen-star-trek-pilot-found.html)

Don't hate to bump it. It's a noble cause. ;)

That's a pretty sweet link. I have the first two seasons on Blu Ray, and it looks soooo awesome. The picture look like it was made yesterday, and the CG effects look great in 1080P.

I am looking forward to seeing the alternate version when it comes out.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

troi vs Padme......Padme WINS IMO, why you ask?

Cuz i have a serious crush on natalie portman :D


I think Padme would win because she was a trained fighter. Although, Troi was a very intelligent woman and was a very important crew member (and she had fantastic female boobs Mikman), she had nothing when it came to fighting skills. Padme would own her in a fight.