Should we accept scores to be submitted in games that don't have a normal score?

[Kugyince]

We're talking about score enabling games such as SimCity using your population as a score.

[oasis]

the forum population knows my stand on the topic so I am going to let others discuss this

[sabby]

the forum population knows my stand on the topic so I am going to let others discuss this

Ditto.

[ZedIsDead]

Depends on the game. If it's something that can easily be attained in one play session and is fair, we should consider it.

[Dudebro]

Sorry sabby and Oasis but I don't really know your stance on this. I think I know but I'm not sure. Why not discuss it? We need to come to a decision on this.

I'm on the side of enabling some games that use things other than score. It needs to be decided on a game by game basis.

[oasis]

Ok I will sum up my side but I dont want to argue about it.

I think that if there is a way to enable a game then it should be enabled.
like in zelda if you made the score how many hearts the player has. that shows that players achievement in that game. in score mode there are no save states so the player would have to play the entire game from start till near end in one sitting. I think of it more like a Xbox 360 achievement more than a trophie. it would be like a place marker saying I did this in that game.

but that is just my side

[Dudebro]

That's right I remember now. I think your idea would be great for some kind of contest/quest thing. It's actually a good idea to add some variety and maybe spark some new people to join the site. Not everyone cares about high scores.
But I really don't think your ideas are a good fit with a high score system. Too many details and conditions to keep track of and it would make this humongous list of trophies, more than one type per game most likely right? That just wouldn't work, imo.

[oasis]

yeah how the score is calculated is the only thing that is weird I would think of it more of just a personal best record and not an actual competition

[Kugyince]

I feel if someone hasn't signed up already to compete in the high score arcade then adding more of the same type of thing isn't going to change that. To attract more users requires a different approach.

We should be focusing on expanding the site. The arcade will naturall expand as we expand the amount of games anyways. To do something like this in our current (brand new) system would be a huge undertaking and convolute the process. The simpler, the better.

[Dudebro]

I meant if people wanted to work on a quest thing on the side that would fit with what Oasis is suggesting. I agree that simpler is better.

But, I don't want people dismissing games that would be a good addition to the score board. Remember, just because you don't like some game types doesn't mean they're less valid. Not directed at you Tenser but you know what I mean.

[Winnebagel]

I think having an alternate type of score in games is kind of cool. It keeps things interesting. Whether it's money, population, or lowest score (i.e. Golf games), it is an interesting way to track your success that deviates from the typical points high score.

[Tails]

I think having an alternate type of score in games is kind of cool. It keeps things interesting. Whether it's money, population, or lowest score (i.e. Golf games), it is an interesting way to track your success that deviates from the typical points high score.
I agree, as long as they can't max out, that would be boring.

[RUnachos]

I really think you shouldn't.If a game game doesn't have a main score system you shouldn't acept high scores for stuff like "Population of city".

[oasis]

Runachos can you explain why not

I think people are getting confused with calling these scores HIGH scores

there would be no real way to compared these types of games to one another
but just because they cant be compared does not mean that they should not be enabled if they have a way to track your own personal best.

[DrunkN]

Am I the only one who doesn't play for competition?

[Kugyince]

Runachos can you explain why not

How does simplicity of process sound?

[Dudebro]

How does simplicity of process sound?
Like a cop out?



Am I the only one who doesn't play for competition?

I only like competition when it's for fun. I can't speak for these other wierdos though.



Edit, here's some examples of alternative scoring.

Aerobiz- it uses passenger totals as score. Since the point of this game is to have the most successful airline this makes sense. It was pointed out by Bsmoke(I think) that this can be inflated using ad campaigns but imo that's just part of the game.

SimCity- population as score. As everyone probably knows this game is a city building sim. The main point is to attract as many citizens as possible. I think this one is obvious.

Uncharted Waters- money as score. This game has a very short story that takes no effort to finish. The true measure of accomplishment is how successful you can become. The only way to gauge that is money. It is not as easy as it sounds either.

Hopefully that helps some people understand the other side of this.

[TNTisKING]

I think that the high score arcade should be limited to games with actual scores. I think it could be a good idea to have a separate list of accomplishments or something, that gives a certain goal in a game and then have a list of people that have shown they have acheived this goal in the game. But for the high score arcade, we should stick to games with traditional scores.

[CatalystiCam]

I agree with oasis if they don't have an actual score mark them as acheivements or something, I love getting achievements on my 360.
Pretty much any game can have a score of some sort.

[Stupid Flanders]

It seems like there is already alternative scoring for other games, such as dudebro's examples... So I'm not sure why there is such a big deal, since it is already happening.

[the_riesen]

could be a badge or flair system....

Like this person completed every megaman game....

[Dudebro]

I changed my mind about Uncharted Waters. I disabled both games from scoring.
I'm on the fence about this because the whole point of the game is to be a merchant or pirate captain. If you just do the story you'll barely experience the whole game.
The problem is if the game is about farming money is that cool? It really becomes a contest to see who can last longer. But isn't that like a fighting game or game like space invaders? Some of those games have scores and they award you on time/survival. To me it's the same thing but it's mostly(the pirate thing) passive instead of aggresive.
Just wanna know what you guys think.


I enabled Aerobiz Supersonic for high score.

How about enabling Populous for High score? Here's a screenshot.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h293/unyobroyo/RUpopulous.jpgThat happens after you win or lose. Can't farm because the other player is constantly fighting you.

[david man45]

I vote yes.

[jim5cents]

sure. that is a score

@ dudebro...53-4?...you got rocked dude.

[Dudebro]

It was a test, :mad:, but yeah the game isn't that easy. The AI is aggresive and relentless. I'm still remembering the controls and it's harder with a keyboard.

[Slime Slayer]

It was a test

fixed

[Dudebro]

But you cut out my excuses. Those made me look less like a noob.

[The Good Doctor]

why is stuff like Battle Zone » Coin Op have the score disabled now, i was fair i got the high score of 20000.
heres the image, to remind you of my benevolence:
http://www.third.arcadeox.com/g/users/17/16780/coin-op_scores/bzone-1239057295.png

[oasis]

coin op games are up for debate because there is no way to track how many coins you put in and in most games giving you inf lives or inf continues

some times the scores stay when you continue sometimes they dont so coin op games dont give you continues

[The Good Doctor]

it does not stay for Battle Zone » Coin Op

[Kong]

Also Coin Op games have saves and game genie type cheats. I'll fix that later but it will not be soon.

[oasis]

how do you access saves and game genie?

[The Good Doctor]

yes, do tell, is it any different for ox then it is java systems?

[Kong]

Coin-Op aOX Full Mode
Save = Shift F7 then press any key to pick a save slot.
Load = F7 then press the same key you did the first time.

To Cheat press Tab and then select Dip Switches or Cheat.

Dip Switches were physical switches on the real arcade that the arcade owners could flip to make the game easier or harder.

Cheat works like game genie but you have to search for settings that can be changed. If you have 3 lives then search for three. Then lose a life and search for a number that changed from 3 to 2. And then you can change that number to 100 and get free lives.

Not available for Java.

[The Good Doctor]

uhh...kong, you know that was a joke?
and, yes, i know this post is very old.

[Kong]

That doesn't make sense as a joke.

[The Good Doctor]

think it through kong.

[Slime Slayer]

yes, do tell, is it any different for ox then it is java systems?

bwahahahhahaha!!!!!!

[Dojah]

I think the enabling of certain scores would be great. Personally I have played tons of games on here just because of the score factor. I think the achievment awards would be really cool as well, because I would probably play more sim/rpg games on here.

As for trying to get more people to the site, this might sound dumb but how writing a small add inviting people to play free games on craigslist. Me personally look on craigslist alot for games and stuff like that always before going to the store. You can set up one add in every major city in America. It's free and if you just cut and paste same add it shouldn't take up to much time. Maybe an hour a week if posted every week by one person. Less if you had some help. I like this site so much if you needed I would be more than happy to do so.

[Dudebro]

I don't think is sounds like a bad idea but Kong wouldn't want it to look like spam advertising since that gives a bad impression. If you did it without coming off as pushy or desperate than I think you'd be good.

Also if you come across any games that could be considered for score mode feel free to mention it. Try to make sure it can't be farmed/cheated in anyway though.

[yoshi_star10]

We're talking about score enabling games such as SimCity using your population as a score.

im liking the idea but sim city isnt the best idea because theres a cheat that can give you $999,999, so it wouldnt be fair, i used it on my snes but i only have 160,000 people or so, im not that good, but i still have a little over $200k left and i dont have mch room left

[Kong]

Yes, please post links to us anywhere you think is appropriate.

Right now our biggest hurdle is lack of advertisement. We have a very high percentage of repeat visitors. We need many more first time visitors.

Generally speaking I do not want us to come across as spamy. Since Craigslist deletes all posts every couple weeks I do not think it matters as much there.

Posting a link on a normal site in multiple sections every week would be very very bad. Doing it on Craigslist is not that bad.

Still try to keep it tasteful, helpful and honest.

[Dudebro]

Also simcity has scenarios which start you with a large population. It's too bad too, I'd be breaking all the simcity scores otherwise.

[yoshi_star10]

Also simcity has scenarios which start you with a large population.
have you gotten to las vegas? if you have, how many people do you start with

[Dudebro]

I've played countless hours of simcity, not just the Snes version either. I don't remember the exact details. Also I never liked scenarios anyways, I prefer to start from scratch.

[xtremelean]

winning is almost great but i like challenges so i voted accepted:-[

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

oh and uh im da greatest

[Dudebro]

Welcome to RU xtremelean and thanks for your input.

[Belmontzar]

Am I the only one who doesn't play for competition?

I personally would just like to take screenshots while playing. So that when stuck, its easier to explain than.
"Im in the cave fighting the dragon" when others ask "which one?"
instead you can battle, take a pic and post it. I play full so I can save. Id also like the score screens to be on your pages, if possible.

[Rip_69er]

I think it is a great idea! the more games with scores enabled the better!! obviously this wouldnt be possible for all games but there are definately a few this could work on!

[Dudebro]

If you find any that should be considered for score enabled let us know here so we can check it out.

[guppy]

Chess?

[Dudebro]

How would you score chess?

[guppy]

Thanx DB

Did a bit of searching.

These point assignments seem standard.
When I play with my son and we don't have the time to finish a game,
We count the points for what each has captured.

Here are what the pieces are worth
Pawn 1 point (8x)
Knight 3 points (x2)
Bishop 3 points (x2)
Rook 5 points (x2)
Queen 9 points (x1)
King 0-200 points (?)
__________

In reading just now,
The king is assigned various scores,
suggested as irrelevant, as capturing King wins the game.

I would suggest that the King should be worth 50.
The total of the other points is 39,
that would seem to be a relative value for the purpose of simple scoring.

If near the end of the game, it may become impossible to win.
This is determined by 20 moves total that there is no capture of pieces.
This is then a draw, stalemate, or tie.

Query whether the won game should be scored as 50-0,
or a total value of captured pieces.

A tie I think would be 25 each for the king, plus count of pieces.
__________

To me the game is creative and fun.
I like the dance, and do not approach it as technical.

There is a much more complicated way of recording
called "Algebraic Notation", as I just learned.
(I loved finite math. Algebra is foggy, and calculus, couldn't get it.)

This wiki link has a very good explanation on scoring alternatives;
Chess piece relative value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This one is how to create a computer chess game.
and speaks to the scoring as well.
Writing chess software@Everything2.com (http://everything2.com/title/Writing+chess+software)

This is a forum link and in it refers to a book title:
how to create a chess game by using java.?? - Hot Scripts Forums (http://www.hotscripts.com/forums/everything-java/21559-how-create-chess-game-using-java.html)
__________

That should get you in the right direction.

Keep me posted.

Bon Nuit

[Dudebro]

Honestly I don't think scoring anything in that way is practical. Maybe others will disagree but I don't see it being enabled for scoring. Things need to be simple and clear(money, population).

[guppy]

Points per captured piece?

Je n'est ce qua? :search:???

In tournament, games are give 1, 1/2, and 0.
(win, tie, loose)

[Dudebro]

Unless the game had some kind of numerical tally for pieces captured or some other measurement I don't see it being included. I hate to just shut your idea down but I don't see it happening. Can't hurt to discuss it though.

[guppy]

I think the bracketed numbers beside this column made it appear
more complicated than I had intended. :bulgy-eyes:

I had meant to indicate how many of each piece there was,
IE: eight pawns, two knights, etc.

Without the confusion, this is the point value:

Pawn 1 point
Knight 3 points
Bishop 3 points
Rook 5 points
Queen 9 point
King 0-200 points

I suggest 50 for the King.

Thanks.

[Smittycal]

Not to be a downer either but a point system in chess isnt really needed. You could technically have a higher score then the other person and still lose the game. Normally scores in chess matches are just to sort out the looser brackets in tournaments.Plus I know of a few gambits where its a 3 move checkmate.>:D

Now that being said I dont think there is anything wrong with scoring it. The winner could also have a high score as well but in a game where its a win/ loose situation the focus wont be on scoring it will be on winning.

---------- Post added at 09:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------

I wouldnt mind seeing scores turned on for Retro Uprising - Arcade - Zed Blade / Operation Ragnarok (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/6693/)

Its a pretty fun game IMO

[RU Joe]

Guppy:
Chess?
You would say that.

Also,
Je n'est ce qua?
means
'I was this qua?'
I believe you meant to say
Je ne sais quoi.

C'est déjÃ* bien assez que la plupart d'entre nous sur ce site ne parlent pas le français, mais....
Par pitié, demandez Ã* votre droite Française ou au moins avoir la décence d'utiliser le traducteur de Google!
Nous mai commencer Ã* penser que vous n'êtes pas Canadien ...

[OldTimer]

I agree with the points made here about score enabling 'no score' games.

What about games that have no reference point like score, money or even a timer? Would it be possible to make these games time trial based somehow? I don't know if it would be even possible without watching a movie made of you playing the game to make sure no level selects and warping. Then maybe even the score disabled games could be still used.

Putting a timer on the game window pop up would be time consuming and Kong definately has better uses with his time. Just a thought.

[Kong]

To see who can beat a game fastest? That is a plan but it is low priority so it wont be done for a while.

[oasis]

@kong Awesome

@everyone else about 5 posts back starting with Chess?

chess wont be enabled because that would mean that I have to look at the screenshot you submit for a score and do the math myself. and I need a pencil and paper to do math most of the time so that is just way to much of a hassle

other games that use non conventional score is the debate of this topic. and I am for it as long as it is easy for us mods to tell what the score is and it can be compared mathematically

[Dudebro]

Yeah Oasis is right, anything score enabled must be clear cut and simple to understand. It's not just about the mods dealing with the confusion but also normal users seeing some confusing mess and losing interest in the site.

Also smitty had a really good point about chess specifically-
You could technically have a higher score then the other person and still lose the game.
I see this as the main reason chess can't be enabled. A score shouldn't be awarded for doing things that aren't part of winning or doing well. Like using money for score on an RPG, it shows some level of progress but it doesn't reflect how well you did at the game by any means.

[justinm26]

personally i think using something like money or something else that isn't actually a "score" is kinda pointless. if they were enabled they would have to be farms.

[Kong]

There are other things besides money. Like Mortal Kombat uses level. Enduro Racer uses time to beat the game. Neither are farmable. I can't think of any off the top of my head but there are some where money works real well as a score. You have to do it on a case by case basis. Sometimes it is good sometimes it isn't.

[justinm26]

that's very true kong but there are thousands of games on here yet that still aren't score enabled. a vast majority of those have actual scores

[Dudebro]

personally i think using something like money or something else that isn't actually a "score" is kinda pointless.
As long as we're smart about which games we enable it won't be pointless. I think the more score enabled games the better. I'm sure a lot of people like coming to RU for the high score board. We're constantly losing games due to farming issues and/or cheats so we need to add more games to the scoring system to keep it diverse.


I can't think of any off the top of my head but there are some where money works real well as a scoreRetro Uprising - Arcade - Dragon Crystal - Highscores (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/1135/scores/)
This is the only way to judge this game really. Money can be random but getting a lot of it shows you've explored every floor and didn't continue(since it takes money to do so). Btw this game is too awesome for only three people to submit scores. I hope by mentioning it others will take notice.

Retro Uprising - Arcade - Aerobiz - Highscores (http://retrouprising.com/game-menu/game/99/scores/)
This game uses passengers as score. It's an airline sim so passenger totals are very important to accomplishing anything in game. Money was considered by it's too easy to farm.

that's very true kong but there are thousands of games on here yet that still aren't score enabled. a vast majority of those have actual scores
If you see any that should be considered please let the game mods know and they'll double check and enable it if possible.

[justinm26]

dudebro, while i may have the time to make that list, that would be a lot of work. by the thousands of games i mostly meant the coin-ops and gameboy games that haven't been enabled. besides, you realize how long that list would be? i'm too lazy to do all that. sorry.

[Dojah]

dudebro, while i may have the time to make that list, that would be a lot of work. by the thousands of games i mostly meant the coin-ops and gameboy games that haven't been enabled. besides, you realize how long that list would be? i'm too lazy to do all that. sorry.
I am in the process of enabling the GameBoy games. This Tournament has taken up much of my time so I will be getting back to that pretty much now actually. I'll try to have every GameBoy game done within this next two weeks so be on the lookout.

I think what Dudebro was saying is if you happen to see a game that could be enabled just let one of the mods know and it would probably be enabled quicker than later.

[Kong]

I'll be doing the Coin-Op games after the contest.

[Kugyince]

I'll get to working on bringing more famicom translastions here as soon as the wife is better.

[Dudebro]

I think what Dudebro was saying is if you happen to see a game that could be enabled just let one of the mods know and it would probably be enabled quicker than later.
Yeah that's what I meant. If you see any just mention it to get the ball rolling. Dojah has gameboy covered soon and Kong will be doing coin op so ignore those since they'll notice them anyways.
I've been checking for farms more than anything else but I'll start checking for new high score ones to help out.

Btw you did bring up a good point. We should definitely focus on normal score games before we worry about unusual ones.

[CatalystiCam]

SOS = time trials, you start out with a 60 minute timer showing something like "56:32" 4 digits, I noticed yesterday when playing on my SNES, at the end of the credits, it freezes on a black screen and shows "fin" in the middle of the screen & how much time it took you in the bottom right. I'm not sure if that's time you had left or how much time you took. I'll have to play through it again after school to clarify.

Edit: it is pretty fair because every time you die, you get shown how much time is left & that you lose 5 minutes due to dieing, this could easily work, and it would help in the tournament I'm in with the bagel bros.

[Winnebagel]

I'll be doing the Coin-Op games after the contest.

Slightly OT, but not completely, will most Coin-Op games have full mode and score mode? I mention it because most games in the contest have had both options, but not Lup Lup Puzzle, Rampart, SFII Turbo, or Wonder Boy In Monster Land. Will those be added for full mode at some point, or are they not able to be? I ask because I think there are some people who would probably like to finish these games versus just playing them in competition mode where it's unlikely that someone could finish the entire game on one coin.

[CatalystiCam]

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp93/CAM3ON36/lllkkkjjfhdfgdyddvsghysd.jpg

SOS Screenshot I just took, It shows that I took 7 minutes and 25 seconds to beat it, I know my way around this game :p

Please enable it.

[Kong]

will most Coin-Op games have full mode and score mode?Yes. Full mode needs to be updated first which I will do after Score Mode is finished. There are still at least two bugs with the current score mode to be fixed. One in Rampart and one in Bubble Bobble.

[Shnarf]

I definately think there is scope for all different types of scoring formats, I would like to see lap times on Mario Kart for example.

[Dudebro]

Lap times for Mario Kart sounds a little too specific but you never know right? This topic kind of died off but the idea is still floating around. We have some games with weird scoring(like Aerobiz, uses passenger totals) but for the most part most stuff is either score or money earned. If you think of any other post them here so we can discuss them.

[oasis]

lap times in mario kart would be impossible to measure.

there are far to many tracks and that would give to much variance in who holds the high score.

[Dudebro]

I think he means have a score page for Mario Kart that lists the tracks and who has the best times. I doubt he means make it a typical high score situation.

[Tails]

and why can't that be a contest like punch out was?

[Dudebro]

It could be a contest but I think the point of this topic is lasting scores that people can set and defend. A contest is a one shot deal.

[supernintendosp]

It only makes sense on such games as ActRaiser, where the population that you helped raise could be the high score. Or better yet, you could use the score on "Professional!" mode as a high score and shomehow have that mode unlocked immediately.

[Dudebro]

If you have specific examples by all means post them here and we'll consider them.

Is there a population cap in Actraiser? I haven't played it in years. Also population isn't the main goal of the game, right?

Or better yet, you could use the score on "Professional!" mode as a high score and shomehow have that mode unlocked immediately.
This is for Actraiser? Either way there's no way to have a hard more unlocked unless the player does it themselves each time.

[d3scride]

No because it dilutes the scoreboard. Otherwise who do we know is the "real" champion of a particular title? Just make non scoring titles have achievements, or where appropriate, you could also have high scores for fastest completion (which a somewhat limited form of exists already)

[cecil]

I want to yes and no so maybe ???, some games yes don't have scores but they take a long time to complete let alone master, so on that note I guess recognition for putting time in to complete those games :thinking: