sinking ship

[Kong]

tl;dr:
A. We are sinking. Something has to change.

B. I have a solid plan to save the game side. Give me one more month to give you a strong working demo of the future our game technology. Keep hope alive until April 1, but if I fail to deliver by fools day then I wouldn't blame you if your hope dies.

C. I do not have a good plan for the forum/community side. What should we do?

Long version.

RU is in sick. Traffic is the worst ever, by far. Games work only on Windows, which is also losing market share. Only works in old FF and old IE. Without a massive update the site will soon be obsolete. The forum software is super old and is probably about to become a security risk, just because that is what old popular software normally does. Spam is already growing because vbulletin is dusty. Mobile is taking over the internet and we barely work on a phone.

RU has 3 functions.
1. Make finding, playing and learning about retro games easy and fun.
2. Track scores.
3. Forums - community.

I have a plan to fix 1&2. I have said this for so long and without any evidence that I have lost all credibility. Give me one more month to convince you I'm telling the truth. If I don't deliver a strong beta by April 1 then I will lose faith myself. If you have no evidence to the contrary by fools day then you can assume the future of RU is bleak. I am optimistic and want you to be too but be realistic, it is do or die time.

@ #3. The forum/community only - not the games or scores.
RU/EVG/Facebook are the only community based websites I have ever used. I am not the target user and I am not the best person to design the solution. I do not know what the solution is.

First problem, our forum software is 10 years old. This is an easy fix. Upgrade to https://vanillaforums.org/ (https://vanillaforums.org/).
Examples
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/ (https://forums.penny-arcade.com/)
https://www.kixeye.com/forum (https://www.kixeye.com/forum)
https://vanillaforums.org/discussions (https://vanillaforums.org/discussions)

But is that enough?

The second problem, the problem I don't understand, our forum concept is also outdated. The internet has changed and we are not keeping up.

So input please.

Should we continue to have a forum at all? Maybe we should start a reddit or twitch or steam or facebook or other group? Maybe we should do like YouTube and have comments on each game but not a forum, or in addition to forum. Brainstorm, get creative. What are the alternatives? What is working elsewhere? What do you want?

Without input I will just upgrade to vanilla, do nothing else and call it done. Not because I think it is a great solution but because it is the only idea have. If you do not like this option then comment.

[Slime Slayer]

Off the top of my, 1 issue is that I very rarely hear about RU, anywhere. What type of things are you doing to promote it? I recall a quote from you on the demise of EVG from years ago. It went something like this (not verbatim): "The owner of EVG thinks the site is like a fine wine, just getting better with age".

If I was in your situation, I would contact YouTubers, Twitch streamers, forums, blogs, image boards, steam communities... Become active on social media, Twitter, Instagram (maybe post a new high score of the day) any active social media you can find. Spam the ever loving shit out of the site.

[ZedIsDead]

I think fixing 1 and 2 will go a long way toward fixing 3. Of course, you should definitely update the forum and get the word out, but the games are the big draw and always have been.

[Slime Slayer]

Yeah, a makeover would be nice, coincide it with a media push for a grand reopening.

[QAOP Spaceman]

My two cents is the forum (issue 3) vs the games / tracking (issue 1 & 2) have absolutely no relation to each other.

It is exceptionally rare to verify a score from anyone who's active in the forums. And people who come by to put up high scores don't tend to be My Little Pony fans.

From a classic gaming perspective, RU's big advantage to me is that there is a certain amount of trust in the system here in the wider gaming community.

I think RU dropped the ball catastrophically by not doing more to promote Wolf's first Internet Gaming Bash of the Year in 2014. There wasn't even a link to the contest on the RU homepage.

This and subsequent contests have attracted hundreds of players. What could have been a real coup for RU - hosting contests where everyone's playing the same games on the same settings - has ended up with Wolf moving to MARP, and his popular contests being hosted by Twin Galaxies instead.

I don't know. I reckon the scores here having some integrity still sets RU apart. You can have a forum anywhere with any bunch of idiots talking to themselves.

[Kong]

100% agreed Steven, but I will come back to that issue, as always, at a later date. Which has historically been a horrible mistake.

@Spaceman, That is what I want to discuss now. Where does that thought lead us?

My goal is to do one big overhaul/facelift then be out. If there is a homepage, articles, news, contests etc then there needs to be a system that one of you can maintain.

For contests/tournament brackets/ ideally there would be a third party service we could link to. I think it is a bad idea for me to create a contest tracker from scratch. I haven't looked at TG's current system but I would prefer finding a more stable and independent site. Does Twitch or Steam or anyone else have something we could use to host contests? Would TG be a good place to track contests for us?

Scores and maybe achievements will be submitted/generated here. But it might be better to use a third party to track/display those scores for us. Again I haven't seen TG recently. Would it be a good idea to let them track our scores for us or should we keep it in house? Does xbox or steam etc track third party scores/achievements? I think that is a stupid question and the answer is no, but asking just in case.

For a homepage we would need a CMS that one of you can edit. So that would be something like wordpress or mediawiki. If we added something like that I would also use it to edit game descriptions.

[elrod21]

Wow! I have to admit i noticed when i came back things weren't as hopping as they used to be.

I originally heard about the site because it was promoted on retrogaming round-up and i stayed because of the games and the people.

There does need to be more promotion in my opinion and with so many new ways to browse the site an upgrade would be great and should be promoted through the roof if successful.

I have every confidence in you Kong. Look what you've built already.

[TodayIsForgotten]

I can do a gun show - if you need some ladies.

[Jason L. Davis]

Off the top of my, 1 issue is that I very rarely hear about RU, anywhere. What type of things are you doing to promote it? I recall a quote from you on the demise of EVG from years ago. It went something like this (not verbatim): "The owner of EVG thinks the site is like a fine wine, just getting better with age".

If I was in your situation, I would contact YouTubers, Twitch streamers, forums, blogs, image boards, steam communities... Become active on social media, Twitter, Instagram (maybe post a new high score of the day) any active social media you can find. Spam the ever loving shit out of the site.
That sounds like a plan! I'm in to help any way possible!

[Dudebro]

I have lost all credibility
Nah man I don't think anyone feels that way. Anyone with any sense knows that this shit isn't easy and you're doing the best you can under the circumstances. You're just one man and you have a life outside of RU. Don't be so hard on yourself.

The forum software is super old and is probably about to become a security risk, just because that is what old popular software normally does. Spam is already growing because vbulletin is dusty. Mobile is taking over the internet and we barely work on a phone.
If we want to keep a forum or social part of the site at all this needs to be upgraded asap. If there's even a hint of it not being secure it will kill any chance we have of retaining new blood.



It is exceptionally rare to verify a score from anyone who's active in the forums. And people who come by to put up high scores don't tend to be My Little Pony fans.

A few years ago most active forum members submitted scores and played games regularly, myself included. The problem is people get bored of it and move on after a year or two. Also I think RU started to put more emphasis on competitiveness and that drove some people away. That being said it also brought in less casual people who put up awesome scores and gave RU some much needed credibility. I think we dropped the ball on finding a balance with casual and hardcore retro gamers. We need to make things fun again.





I have more to say about helping RU but it's been a long day and I don't wanna think anymore today.

[Slime Slayer]

Look what you've built already.

Precisely.

[Dudebro]

Games work only on Windows ....... Only works in old FF and old IE. Without a massive update the site will soon be obsolete. The forum software is super old and is probably about to become a security risk ........ Mobile is taking over the internet and we barely work on a phone.
Bolded part seems like it should be fixed right away. Once those are dealt with then we can worry about the forum, unless it becomes a security risk or it can be done with little time and effort.

RU/EVG/Facebook are the only community based websites I have ever used. I am not the target user and I am not the best person to design the solution. I do not know what the solution is.I think we need to find someone who is very active on social media/streaming sites. I don't mean to insult anyone but I think most of us are a bit out of the loop with these things, I know I am. I'm ashamed to admit it but I'm confused by how twitter works. If someone helps me understand it I'll help with getting RUs name out there though. Personally I think FB is a lost cause unless we get someone who enjoys posting lots of funny content and replying to posts. Streaming sounds like a great idea but it's not something I enjoy so I won't be much help there. Sites like Reddit would probably help a lot but I get the feeling that the community reacts badly to thinly veiled advertising so whoever goes that route needs to be subtle and sneaky about it.

But is that enough? I think a simple, clean and functional forum upgrade is enough. We can always tweak and add stuff as needed, right? It just needs to work reliably and not look shitty like Vizzed.


The second problem, the problem I don't understand, our forum concept is also outdated. The internet has changed and we are not keeping up.I'm not sure what you mean, forums are outdated in general? I still see lots of sites doing well with typical forums. Some places are doing away with it in favor of FB or Twitter(like Xbox.com) but I think there's still lots of people who prefer a forum.

Should we continue to have a forum at all?I vote yes. If we manage to get new people I'm sure some would like a place to talk about the games without having to go to a third party site to do it.

Maybe we should start a reddit or twitch or steam or facebook or other group?Steam is not worth it. From what I've seen the popular groups on there are directly related to current games or silly/troll shit. I don't think retro games would attract very many people at all even if we found a way to get noticed.

FB needs funny content pretty much daily to get anywhere. I also think FB isn't considered "cool" anymore so it's probably not worth investing much time in it.

Maybe we should do like YouTube and have comments on each gameI liked that thing we had where there was a topic for each game but it obviously got cluttered and wasn't used well. Maybe a system where the topic only generates if someone clicks on a discussion link from the game page? That way garbage games don't get in the way.

What do you want?I'd love some extra incentive to play games. I am not into setting high scores so that does nothing to motivate me. A long time ago Oasis posted an idea about some kind of quests to complete that didn't involve scores(or it could but not be the focus of it). It could also be an achievement system like Xbox Live or Steam does. Not everyone approves of those but it's impossible to deny how popular they are. I'd even say games without achievements suffer lower sales because of it. I know on Steam it's usually one of the first things people ask about when a new game comes out. The other is trading cards but that's not realistic or needed on RU I think.


Spam the ever loving shit out of the site.
We have to be careful with this method. Lots of sites will ban your account for doing it and lots of people will be justifiably wary of anything that looks like spam advertising. We gotta make sure we understand the rules of the sites and the feelings of the community before we get too aggressive about it. Also sites like Gamefaqs will ban you right away for even hinting at talking about sites with roms, even if they aren't hosted there or w.e. I got banned for having an RU link in my sig and it took a year before they relented and unbanned me.






Edit- I can try to help with uploading videos to Youtube again if someone gives me very clear directions on how to do it. I may not be 100% reliable and on time though because I have two little kids running around now and they don't let me use the PC as much as I'd like. Just putting it out there.

[Kong]

Look what you've built already.
Yeah but what have I done lately ;)


Bolded part seems like it should be fixed right away.Part of the problem is I have always insisted this will be the first step and the 5 years of delays it has had are insane and caused everything else to be neglected. I still believe this is the first step and know what my plan for it is so I don't need feeback for this yet.

I also know we need to advertise but am not ready for suggestions yet.

Sites like Reddit would probably help a lot but I get the feeling that the community reacts badly to thinly veiled advertisingI didn't mean as advertising. I meant as a complete replacement of our forums. Instead of hosting our own forums, is there a third party we should use. Weak example - https://www.reddit.com/r/MAME/
I'm not suggesting we do what mame did, but asking if you know a better solution than hosting our own forum.


I liked that thing we had where there was a topic for each game but it obviously got cluttered and wasn't used well.Poorly implemented last time. I was thinking of including a youtube style comment system on each game or a link to a forum thread. Which would be better? Probably will get labeled low priority and not happen.

I'd love some extra incentive to play games. I am not into setting high scores so that does nothing to motivate me.I have a plan for this. Right now, my only question is are there any 3rd party sites that could track our achievements? Do you know a site you think displays achievements the best - so I can see how they are doing it.

The other is trading cards
What are cards?

[Wolf]

We actually have a twitch account for ru but only people that streamed there was barra and I, in which we started to stream with our own accounts instead.

[Dudebro]

I'm not suggesting we do what mame did, but asking if you know a better solution than hosting our own forum.
I dunno really I prefer typical forums like we have now. I like the reddit style for high traffic sites but on smaller ones I think it would make things feel impersonal and make it harder to keep a community. I could be wrong though I'm no expert on forums either.

I was thinking of including a youtube style comment system on each game or a link to a forum thread. I like the youtube style comment system idea. If you had links to forum threads does that mean you'd have to make tons of empty topics ahead of time or would it create it the first time someone comments? Either way something like this would help get more people talking.

I have a plan for this. Right now, my only question is are there any 3rd party sites that could track our achievements? Do you know a site you think displays achievements the best - so I can see how they are doing it.Nah I don't get that much into it I just collect them on the site/service I play the games on. I wouldn't worry too much about this idea for now though it seems like something that should wait until everything else is done anyways.

What are cards?Game devs can design artwork for cards and badges that users can collect after playing the game for a few hours. You only collect a certain number for playing and to craft a badge you have to either buy more off the steam market, trade with other people or wait for a random booster pack to pop up. Badges do nothing but can be displayed on your account. When you craft you also get a background for your profile and profile experience points.

It's a really smart time sink that seems to generate tons of money for Valve. I think RU would need a bigger community before it added anything like that though.


Btw I was thinking it might help if you made a more public topic and asked people what things they like about RU and what things they'd like to change or see added. People like feeling involved and it might help us come up with some good ideas. No mention of sinking ships or lost credibility though;)

[Slime Slayer]

I think RU dropped the ball catastrophically by not doing more to promote Wolf's first Internet Gaming Bash of the Year in 2014. There wasn't even a link to the contest on the RU homepage.

This and subsequent contests have attracted hundreds of players. What could have been a real coup for RU - hosting contests where everyone's playing the same games on the same settings - has ended up with Wolf moving to MARP, and his popular contests being hosted by Twin Galaxies instead.

This was a big mistake, however I think it can be reversed. If Kong can scrape together a thousand dollars for actual cash prizes, that would turn a lot of heads to RUs direction.

[TodayIsForgotten]

This was a big mistake, however I think it can be reversed. If Kong can scrape together a thousand dollars for actual cash prizes, that would turn a lot of heads to RUs direction.

Honestly, this would be one of the easiest (in the sense of drawing attention) options to generate people. Its the reason i was drawn to this site.

[Kong]

does that mean you'd have to make tons of empty topics ahead of time
no.

I wouldn't worry too much about this idea for now though it seems like something that should wait until everything else is done anyways.
The code in the emulators for badges is already complete . I just need to create the website part to display them. I was hoping there was a website that tracks badges in indie games and we could just submit our badges to them. Save a lot of work and probably be more robust. But I guess that doesn't exist.

I was thinking it might help if you made a more public topicNearly all active long time users are in this group which is who I wan tot talk to for now.

If Kong can scrape together a thousand dollars for actual cash prizes, that would turn a lot of heads to RUs direction.Until we regain popularity the only option is some sort of user funded prize pool. Entry fees for contest that are awarded to the winner. I've floated that idea before and no one was interested.

One idea for the future - after we are popular again...
1. Guest users can only play in score mode and netplay.
2. To play in full mode you have to create an account.
3. When you create an account you are asked to create your own subscription rate. You would be asked to beat the average subscription price but can choose to pay $0. Free is an option but you are encouraged to pay.
4. All subscriptions go towards prize pools for each game.
5. If you beat a first place score and are a paying member then you receive the jackpot for that game.
6. Jack pots grow over time so old scores are worth more.

[Dudebro]

But I guess that doesn't exist.
Maybe it does. This is one of the things I thought of when I suggested making a more public topic, newbs or semi active people might know more about it.

[Jason L. Davis]

I say do the facelift , Keep the donation option running and every month we start doing a cash prize contest for Marathoning or High Score challenges.

[Kong]

I just had my https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_(anatomy) removed.
In hospital overnight for post-monitoring.

[Jason L. Davis]

I just had my https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_(anatomy) removed.
In hospital overnight for post-monitoring.
Prayers your way brother! I've had mine removed about 6 years ago. very sore the way they remove it now!:bad:

[elrod21]

I just had my https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_(anatomy) removed.
In hospital overnight for post-monitoring.

That's Brutal! Glad to hear it didn't become deadly as can happen.

Here's to a speedy recovery.

[Slime Slayer]

Whoa, did you get appendicitis? Get well soon.

[Kong]

thank. Yes, appendicitis. It didn't rupture but I did wait longer than I should have to go to hospital, Kinda out of it now.

[Dudebro]

My wife had that too and it wasn't a fun experience before or after the fact. Take it easy, like really take it easy and don't push yourself.

[Kong]

That was horrible. On the mend now.

Without modern medicine, this would have been the week I died.

I've never had insurance before. Never needed it. On a whim I filled out a form a couple months ago that gave me insurance for ER only. Got that just in time.

Odd to think though without it I would have had to made the choice of going into debt to find out if I had horrible gas or was about to die. Even with the insurance I was still... ehh maybe it's nothing.. and waited too long before getting it checked out.

[elrod21]

That was horrible. On the mend now.

Without modern medicine, this would have been the week I died.

I've never had insurance before. Never needed it. On a whim I filled out a form a couple months ago that gave me insurance for ER only. Got that just in time.

Odd to think though without it I would have had to made the choice of going into debt to find out if I had horrible gas or was about to die. Even with the insurance I was still... ehh maybe it's nothing.. and waited too long before getting it checked out.

Well I for one am glad you continue to be among the living and you made the choice to get insurance so you aren't bankrupt after coming through it.

Just take it easy until you are 100%.

[Slime Slayer]

Crazy, to be honest I was starting to think the worst, you had posted that last comment and then nothing. Good to hear you are alive.

[QAOP Spaceman]

I can't help thinking that if this happened in any other developed country - in Europe, Japan, Australia, NZ, Canada, you wouldn't have to make a choice between bankrupcy and death. That is completely unacceptable. FFS America. You should be ashamed.

Good to hear you're on the mend, Kong. Take her nice and easy.

[Dudebro]

Not sure where to post this but I figured I'd let you know that the RU facebook page gets random likes from time to time despite having no new posts. I posted today to let people know we aren't dead though.

[Tails]

I can definitely see this is a sinking ship. For myself I agree mobile is taking over and being on a phone is so much easier than being on a computer. Im more than willing to help bring this site back up but im not aure what i can do mobile only.

[Tails]

A few years ago most active forum members submitted scores and played games regularly, myself included. The problem is people get bored of it and move on after a year or two. Also I think RU started to put more emphasis on competitiveness and that drove some people away. That being said it also brought in less casual people who put up awesome scores and gave RU some much needed credibility. I think we dropped the ball on finding a balance with casual and hardcore retro gamers. We need to make things fun again.

I was rereading this thread and it made me remember why I quit trying around here. Be it losing a score to an intentional farmer farming up the timer or everything going to world records or even contests that didn't finish is what killed my joy for ru. I also... Well become a complete asshole when in a contest.

Retro uprising I remember when I loved this place was when we had game of the week, tenser doing amazing contests, kong original donkey Kong avatar and Chris Mr sparkle avatar. It wasn't hard core it was very casual and had great people who were modest as heck (bagal) yet they were gods of gaming. I miss that.

[krehztim]

Despite the fact that RU isn't what it used to be, it's still my favorite, and I'm loyal to the end. It does make me very sad to see how it used to be, but technology and the way we connect has moved so far forward in the 10 or so years RU has been around. Everyone's got a console or PC, they're doing Steam, XBL, Discord, Twitch. As long as we can raise enough $$ to keep hosting, I hope RU stays around. In my experience, it's unique in the gaming community. TG is a bunch of whining, hyper-critical asshats, CAG needs no comment, DKF is nice, but it's not really a community per se, just the shoutbox. I never got to experience RU in its heyday, but I'm happy to do whatever would help move RU along.

I was rereading this thread and it made me remember why I quit trying around here. Be it losing a score to an intentional farmer farming up the timer or everything going to world records or even contests that didn't finish is what killed my joy for ru. I also... Well become a complete asshole when in a contest.

Retro uprising I remember when I loved this place was when we had game of the week, tenser doing amazing contests, kong original donkey Kong avatar and Chris Mr sparkle avatar. It wasn't hard core it was very casual and had great people who were modest as heck (bagal) yet they were gods of gaming. I miss that.

[ZedIsDead]

Hmph, we may have to go back to having Robot automatically posting articles.

[Tails]

Hmph, we may have to go back to having Robot automatically posting articles.
50% of them were weird

[Slime Slayer]

Well our user base is probably around that number too.

[Tails]

Well our user base is probably around that number too.

It's fun being weird, it's fun being weird, ita fun being weird you should try it sometime.

[david man45]

Should we continue to have a forum at all?
Maybe we should start a reddit or twitch or steam or facebook or other group? Maybe we should do like YouTube and have comments on each game but not a forum, or in addition to forum. Brainstorm, get creative. What are the alternatives? What is working elsewhere? What do you want?
All of what you said and throw a trollbox somewhere, or make it a pop up chat box. Just whatever is a better live chat system than what is already in place. I don't think it has to be anything special, but I think it would and hold a lot players here giving a stronger sense of community.
Its a common theme amongst places I've been that seem to have steady traffic. Get out onto other social media to advertise and improve on the sense of community with better live chat and the comments on specific games is a good idea too.

[krehztim]

Easy and available Live Chat might help. It's the sole reason a few people go to donkeykongforum, the live shoutbox. Might help, might not.

[david man45]

I see plenty of places (that should probably have little to no traffic) who have dozens of people staying around soley for trollboxes, its definitely a key factor here

I think making some sort of sign up tournament system where anyone and their grandma can set up their own contest registration etc would be really useful too, considering it incentivizes competition without having to tackle some of the crazy difficult high scores. im not sure exactly how it'd be implemented, but its an idea. Maybe I want to set up a day long contest for [fill in the blank game] and have a separate automated-type of forum section where I can initiate it, the spots fill, and bam the contest is made. Now throw in user sponsored prizes or prize pools and you have yourself an entirely new dimension of the site that I think would give people a reason. maybe it wouldn't be so simple but its an idea

[Tails]

Just integrate Discord.