TG

[Barra]

Thought I'd post this here for those who don't visit the site.
What will this mean for RU? It will probably be a while before they do this, but its something to think about

We have been creating a custom TG COMPETITION EMU CLIENT. We are starting with MAME as the first emulation "module" that it will support and step by step add more emus from there.

http://www.retrouprising.com/img/2014_12/5030.jpg


We can not go into full details here and will discuss further at a later date however here are some highlights:

1.) Built-in direct world record form submission / access to your VERIFIED TG account
2.) Anti-cheating, secure verification protocols / loaded ROM version check against verified TG database ROM set.
3.) Auto INP and screen capture recording (video) for submissions.
4.) Ability to identify and register secure controller / input devices (allows 'official controllers" to be set if desired)
5.) CPU power profiler/rating mechanism (similar to 3DMark) so that all submissions will include a profile index number that players can reference.
6.) A "high end" version for powerful computers.
7.) A "low end" version for older computers.
8.) Versions for PC/Mac/Linux
9.) Etc.

Obviously this is still being worked on but we feel that this will help make score chasing more accessible to larger groups of people and increase competition.

We also feel that it will help provide an additional level of standardization to score competition on emulated platforms.

Here is how it will be handled in the TG score database:

All current MAME scores/tracks will REMAIN. People will still be able to submit to those tracks according to the previous rules and complete on those tracks. There will be no changes and it will continue as is.

The new TGCEC will be considered its own platform and will be added to the database with its own tracks. There will be the "high end" version of the platform with tracks for submissions from people with computers that have been CPU index rated a certain value and above - and there will be a duplicate set of tracks for the "low end" version of the platform for people with computers that have been CPU index rated underneath a certain value. (When the term "CPU" is used here, it does not just mean a computer's main microprocessor, it means total system performance.) We may change this and just group everything together with CPU index ratings as an indicator, but we are not sure yet.

We are aware of the complexities of MAME licensing (and EMU licensing in general) and we have been in contact with the MAME organization. Due to the way that we are engineering the application, are able to fully comply with the MAME licensing without having to release the parts of our source code that must remain secure for all of this to work. We are excited and think that this will create great opportunities for players.

So, until the TGCEC is released, we recommend that the community adjudicates MAME accomplishments according to the previous established rules, and behaves reasonably in its judgements. The whole point is to have fun, and not turn the process into an excessive exercise of scrutiny. It is important that people just use common sense and keep the spirit of what we are all trying to do - which is have fun and appreciate each other!

More about this later, but in the meanwhile we hope this helps.

[Wolf]

so we can sue twin galaxies right lol

[QAOP Spaceman]

What will this mean for RU?

Crikey Barra, I think this is something we ought to think about. What they're proposing sounds eerily similar to what RU does but with the relative might of the TG branding behind it...


It will probably be a while before they do this

It does seem to be in its very early stages...

9.) Etc.

...and there are, to me, some decidedly odd features being considered (high end and low end? "Official controllers"?).

this will help make score chasing more accessible to larger groups of people and increase competition

I think a lot of this may well depend on how well the new submissions process goes over at TG. I am a simple person, and I've watched and read Jace Hall's concise (arf! :P ) explanations of how it works, and I have to say I'm none the wiser. Choose the evidence you want to submit? Community verification? Trusted opinions? Alpiger? Infallible algorithms? Yikes.

I wish them all the best but I can see a whole shedload of potential problems with this model. And if everyone's fighting over the scores how much authority would a TG emu package have?

Also in the background is that if (and I quote a certain billion dollar company's legal department) emulation "represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers" can TG afford a knock on the door?

Food for thought, anyway.

:\

[ZedIsDead]

Sounds like they're in more competent hands than before. Definitely cause for concern, but I think they'll have a mountain of issues at first.

[Dudebro]

Also in the background is that if (and I quote a certain billion dollar company's legal department) emulation "represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers" can TG afford a knock on the door?
This was my first thought. I've always felt that the all seeing Eye of Sauron(corporate lawyers) would eventually see RU and shut us down but something like TG would noticed a lot faster. RU flies under the radar, intentionally or not, but TG likes to promote itself very publicly. At the very least this could prove to be a good barometer of our chances.

That being said this worries me. With the exception of a few nice people I hate everything I've seen about the TG community. If this move kills RU I might have to dedicate some time to troll their site, because I'm petty like that.

Sorry I'm not more helpful. If I think of anything I'll be sure to post it asap.

[Kong]

Obviously not good for us. Would be nice if they didn't step on our toes but makes sense that they want to grow in our direction.

I'm not going to spend much time thinking about it for now. I'm just going to keep working on my current upgrade project and see how the cards land after they have a working demo. But I will read opinions and updates posted here.

Because of their history (they've been running since the 80s) we have to recognize them as an official score keeper. We have to say they matter and are part of the scene. They don't have to recognize us. They can say our scores are not official. Therefore, we have to be technically superior. In a tie we lose.

Any nerd that thinks about it long enough can cheat in WolfMAME, the software MARP's uses. Most likely TG will make several of the same mistakes.

Saying things like "a track for low end computers and another for high end computers" makes me think they do not fully understand what they are talking about. Maybe it will be good from a marketing stand point but from a technical POV it is dumb.

The "official controllers" bit won't work. You can use xpadder and joytostick to mask any controller and trick their software into thinking you are just using a keyboard. There are other ways to mask the controller id too.

What is the general opinion of Jace? Is he a reasonable person? Does he have a good reputation? Can he pull this off? I know past recent TG managers haven't done so well. Is he pulling things around or more of the same?

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

I think the time of ROM C&Ds are over. Archive.org, one of the biggest sites on the internet is hosting nearly all roms, many of them to play online. I don't think game companies are fighting old roms anymore.

They are putting their dogs into fighting current gen used game sales.

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Also, I don't think TG is providing roms, just an extension for emulators. Zero legal issue in that.

[Barra]

What is the general opinion of Jace? Is he a reasonable person? Does he have a good reputation? Can he pull this off? I know past recent TG managers haven't done so well. Is he pulling things around or more of the same?


From what I have seen. He is arrogant, intimidating, but intelligent, and has the credentials to back it up.
He is doing 10000000000x better than any TG in recent years. Its the best hope they have of becoming something big.
Past TG managers have basically been nobodies. Jace is someone. He seems to be known in the gaming circles, and have a lot of contacts.
Jace Hall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm cautiously optimistic about it. I want it to succeed but I don't want RU to fall because of it. Obviously if they do it right, RU will struggle to keep up. Sad but true :sick:

Have you and Jace been in contact with each other at all, Kong?

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------


Also, I don't think TG is providing roms, just an extension for emulators. Zero legal issue in that.

This is correct

[QAOP Spaceman]

Saying things like "a track for low end computers and another for high end computers" makes me think they do not fully understand what they are talking about.

It is a little eccentric, isn't it? But they have tons of resources and manpower (relatively speaking) and enough nerdlingers to get it working no question even if the CEO, sorry custodian, is a bit hazy on the specifics

What is the general opinion of Jace?

He is arrogant, intimidating, but intelligent, and has the credentials to back it up.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I've been following the new TG quite closely and the arrogance is backed up with a pretty impressive charisma. He definitely gives the impression of a guy who can get things done.

[Dudebro]

Looking at the stuff he's worked on I'm not very impressed. His video game credits are for games that are pretty crappy(TV/Movie games bleh) besides F.E.A.R. and some old PC games that seem well received but I never heard of them. Maybe that last part is why people seem to love him? More recently it seems like he's only worked on podcast stuff and that failed TV reboot V.

Yes he's got credibility in the industry but he's not gonna be winning any awards for the quality of his work. It seems like he's just a corporate guy who gets his name on stuff because he's the boss. Maybe this TG project will be similar and it will fall apart.

Also his name is Jason not Jace. I hate when people change their name like that. It's like going by Xander if your name is Alexander, HATE IT.

[QAOP Spaceman]

Also his name is Jason not Jace. I hate when people change their name like that. It's like going by Xander if your name is Alexander, HATE IT.

I hope your full name isn't Dudebrother, or we got pots and kettles going on here :D

What I meant about Ja... Mr Hall was that he's not necessarily a likeable guy ( a 'corporate guy' for sure, Dudebro) but a guy that we ought not to dismiss lightly.

Like Barra said, I think he's definitely way above anything TG have had at the helm, maybe since the very start.

He said himself, he's not Walter Day.

[Kong]

Have you and Jace been in contact with each other at all, Kong?

From Facebook. 2/19/14

Hi Jace. It looks like you might be the new TG owner. If so do you need any help getting it up and running? I have 15 years experience with PHP/MySQL specifically with gaming sites.
Good luck.



I currently am not commenting or confirming on anything TG so I hope you understand. Regardless, your decision to offer help from out of the blue like that shows great character and I appreciate you as a person just for being willing to do such a thing. Thank you for your kindness and generosity and passion.


That is the full conversation.

I sent the old TG a couple emails asking about TG and RU working together. They seemed to go into a dark whole.

I think it would be wise for me to reach out to Jace. Suggestions one what to say?

[Barra]

Your old emails were probably never read. They are most likely still sitting unread along with 1000's of other emails the old owners never cared to glance at.

Not sure what you could say to him. He is definitely aware of RU, so you could reach out as being the owner and see where he stands.

Jace Hall of Twin Galaxies speaks of rules and guidelines of adjudication LIVE (http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,6128.msg71735/topicseen.html#msg71735)

[Dudebro]

I hope your full name isn't Dudebrother, or we got pots and kettles going on here :D

What I meant about Ja... Mr Hall was that he's not necessarily a likeable guy ( a 'corporate guy' for sure, Dudebro) but a guy that we ought not to dismiss lightly.

Like Barra said, I think he's definitely way above anything TG have had at the helm, maybe since the very start.

He said himself, he's not Walter Day.
Nah Dudebro is my full online name, I keep it real.

I'm not saying we should dismiss him I just commented on his crappy stuff so we're not too intimidated. His gaming cred is pretty lacking from where I'm sitting but then again I'm out of the loop when it comes to older PC stuff.

[QAOP Spaceman]

Perhaps another reason to think TG's new ownership, sorry custodianship, gets things done, or perhaps not.

(The question might well be asked how they lost the Guinness accreditation under the last owners).

At any rate, for the Shildts and Ferretis of the gaming world, and the general public, the Guinness name association is potentially another big thing.

The Twin Galaxies Log - Guinness World Records and Twin Galaxies Announce Global Collaboration (http://www.twingalaxies.com/content.php/3375-Guinness-World-Records-and-Twin-Galaxies-Announce-Global-Collaboration)

[Barra]

Thanks Spaceman was just posting that. Ill post it here


After much tireless work, a strong positive attitude, and close scrutiny of our newly developed adjudicating methods and practices, we are very pleased to announce an all new global collaboration and relationship with Guinness World Records!

We excited for the future and look forward to a new era of video game player achievement, world record recognition and history being made!

Be sure to get over to The Twin Galaxies Log - The Twin Galaxies Log... (http://www.twingalaxies.com) and set up your VERIFIED account!

-----
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Dec 16, 2014

Guinness World Records and Twin Galaxies Announce Global Collaboration

Guinness World Records and Twin Galaxies’ Collaboration Poised to Significantly Elevate Video Game Enthusiast Record Attempts and Individual E-Sport Player Achievement Recognition.

New York, New York
Guinness World Records, the global authority on record-breaking achievement, today announces a worldwide collaboration with long standing internationally recognized video game score adjudicator and record keeper Twin Galaxies. Guinness World Records and Twin Galaxies will collaborate to promote, adjudicate, document and broadcast video game record attempts and incredible player achievements across the globe.

The collaboration sees a new collective effort to celebrate, recognize and create achievement opportunity for record-breaking video game players across the world. Bringing together both organization’s expertise and resources, the collaboration will include and expanded opportunity for greater exposure and presence for live interactive video game record attempts, more formalized player recognition through greater publication, expanded video game adjudication practices, greater access and creation of statistical player data, and the support of digital content creation around the entire subject of video game players. Players can now submit applications or scores to Home | Guinness World Records (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com) or The Twin Galaxies Log - The Twin Galaxies Log... (http://www.twingalaxies.com) beginning January 2, 2015. Please check either websites for more information on how to submit. Applications will be redirected accordingly depending on the type of record.

Commenting on the collaboration with Twin Galaxies, Alistair Richards, Global President of Guinness World Records, said: "We are proud to have collaborated with Twin Galaxies in the past to capture the power of record-breaking in the video game category. With Twin Galaxies, and its 30 year history of adjudicating and recording video game player scores and achievement, we are pleased to once again join forces and collectively reveal the tremendous talent being demonstrated by video game enthusiasts. Together, we can identify more of these amazing individual players and give them the recognition they deserve."

Jace Hall, Chairman & Head Custodian of Twin Galaxies, commented, "Twin Galaxies’ specific focus on the video game category for the last 30 years makes us a perfect partner for collaboration with Guinness World Records. Both TwinGalaxies.com and its 24hr live interactive streaming network TwinGalaxiesLive.com are extremely excited to be in support and collaboration with Guinness World Records and are particularly proud to be able to emphasize and promote individuals for their video game achievements. Together, we will re-introduce to the market a new era of recognizing the talent, creativity, and dedication to record breaking that video game enthusiasts continually express across the globe."

FULL PRESS RELEASE HERE:
www.twingalaxies.com/gwr-announce

[Winnebagel]

That being said this worries me. With the exception of a few nice people I hate everything I've seen about the TG community. If this move kills RU I might have to dedicate some time to troll their site, because I'm petty like that.

I like this idea and I'm with you on much of the TG community. There are some cool people over there, but many seem to be moderately scummy.

I wonder how much Jace bought the site for? I kind of wish I had paid better attention when that was going on. I would have loved to see someone acquire TG and connect it to RU somehow.

[Slime Slayer]

I like this idea and I'm with you on much of the TG community. There are some cool people over there, but many seem to be moderately scummy.

I wonder how much Jace bought the site for? I kind of wish I had paid better attention when that was going on. I would have loved to see someone acquire TG and connect it to RU somehow.

That was what I was thinking, propose a partnership of some sort.

[Kong]

The window resize/move pause cheat in score mode took me so much effort and time to remove from mame (in the version I'm using - not live on site yet). I felt like I beat Battletoads on one life when I finally got it working.

I didn't think TG/MARP would figure it out and so it would put us ahead of them.... And then MAME fixed it themselves in 0.156 fo. So all my effort for nothing and TG/MARP have it too.

[QAOP Spaceman]

I don't want to feel like a spy, but

RU is eventually going to get sued out of existence, unfortunately.

Straight from Jace Hall's mouth.

Donkey Kong Forum shoutbox this morning:

VON [07|Jan 02:13:00 AM]: anyways, it's not a bad idea to build a newer standard TG version of MAME - 106 is old - but I personally wouldn't use some MAME web interface, although many people do. RU is hugely popular

VON [07|Jan 02:14:38 AM]: if the TG MAME client helps some users interface more easily, then great, but I'd still want the ability to submit the old fashioned way

jace hall [07|Jan 02:16:14 AM]: RU is eventually going to get sued out of existence, unfortunately.

jace hall [07|Jan 02:17:14 AM]: Its that whole victim of your own popularity thing...

Thoughts?

[Wolf]

what is jace going to sue us?

[bearhawk72]

The first thing any game developer/owner would do is send a DMCA to Kong and demand he take down their property. If he refused then they could move on to suing him. Otherwise just taking down the stuff would likely appease them.

The question is whether or not these companies would even care anymore. The vast majority are not making any money off the games anymore as you cannot buy any of them new from them anymore(unless it's stuff on the Wii virtual console). Anything you buy these days, even in sealed condition, they'd never see a cent of that money since it's all on the secondary market.

[Dudebro]

If RU gets sued the TG should be too.

[Kong]

I'm sure he meant Nintendo sueing, not himself.

Is not something I am worried about.

[Winnebagel]

Jace seems to be a bit full of himself. Let's see if he becomes Walter Day 2.0 or not. If so and he ends up selling, the RU community should get together and buy TG. :sinister:

[Kong]

cheetah32p recently contacted TG about submitting a DK score from RU to TG.

I think he was talking to Jeremy Young and Xelnia and that they just wanted the inp and a screen cap from the mod panel showing the pause count.

I made the pause count public and gave him the inp file. That seems to have worked though I have not heard back so I'm not positive.

I want to contact TG and see if they would like to cooperate in any manner.

My goals in order.
1. Automatically or manually submit scores from RU to TG.
2. Automatically list the world record next to any game.
3. Cooperate on creating the new emulator that TG wants to make.

Who should I contact? Jace, Xelnia, Jeremy? Any suggestions? Additional goals?

[Wolf]

if i remeber correctly jermery is xelnia
on some friday nights jace does a talk show on twitch and answers questions

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

if i remeber correctly jermery is xelnia
on some friday nights jace does a talk show on twitch and answers questions

[Barra]

Xelnia (Jeremy Young) has nothing to do with TG, he is a high score mod at DKF.

Contact Jace

[Kong]

Ahhh. I bet he was submitting to DKF not TG. Miscommunication.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

DKF tracks DK scores only right?

[Barra]

Yeah I don't think he wanted to submit to TG

Yep pretty much only DK scores. (DK Jr, DK3, CK)