Dark Knight Shooting [Archive]

Winnebagel

07-20-2012, 04:05 PM

He told arresting officers he was the joker. His apartment was wired with enough explosives to blow up the entire building then some. My guess is he is just a little touched.

WHAT??? I didn't hear that. He thought he was the Joker? Oh man. That's horrible.

I read he was working on a PHD in neuroscience, so he was fairly intelligent, but insane. I feel really bad for the families and the little kids who went.

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Warghoul's right. Here's the link: NYC Police Commissioner said alleged shooter called himself The Joker; could he have been influenced by â€˜Batmanâ€™? | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/20/nyc-police-commissioner-said-alleged-shooter-called-himself-joker-could-have/)

Dudebro

07-20-2012, 04:19 PM

“Batman didn’t cause this shooting,” he wrote Friday. “The very real man who opened fire on moviegoers did. And while it is true that a darkened movie theater at midnight, showing a much-anticipated film to a packed audience, can attract someone intent on violence, football stadiums can, too. Restaurants can. Political events can.
I was worried when you linked the Fox news version of events but at least they put this in at the end. Batman in no way caused this. The guy was a loon who used it as an excuse. If he really wanted to emulate Joker why did he wear body armor and helmet? They should just take his statement and put a bullet in his head.

Winnebagel

07-20-2012, 04:31 PM

I was worried when you linked the Fox news version of events but at least they put this in at the end. Batman in no way caused this. The guy was a loon who used it as an excuse. If he really wanted to emulate Joker why did he wear body armor and helmet? They should just take his statement and put a bullet in his head.

That was just the first article that came up from the Google search. Yeah. This isn't Batman's fault. If he really liked Batman he would have believed in what the character believes.

Sadly though, comic fans are not looking very good right now, with the earlier death threats to critics and people who don't like Nolans films. Now this. Not saying this is connected (it's not), but the whole deal is just sad.

Slime Slayer

07-20-2012, 04:49 PM

Did this take place in the theater?

Winnebagel

07-20-2012, 04:53 PM

Did this take place in the theater?

Yes. Somehow the self-proclaimed "Joker" gunman opened the side exit, threw in tear gas, and started shooting into the crowd.

Slime Slayer

07-20-2012, 04:59 PM

Crazy, yeah he was nuts.

CatalystiCam

07-20-2012, 05:21 PM

It now bothers me that I'm going to see this tonight... Not really, but this is awful. Guys obviously crazy or something, of course they'll take it out on Batman though. Blame technology instead of the person as it usually goes.

Dudebro

07-20-2012, 05:55 PM

It makes me angry to read about people who think this might've been less of a tragedy if other people were armed. This guy went into a dark theater with a loud dark movie playing and threw two smoke grenades/tear gas canisters(not sure). He was wearing a bullet proof vest, riot helmet, throat protector and even a groin protector. Unless someone in the crowd was also packing an assault rifle it wouldn't help. Even if they did manage to fire at him it would've been ridiculously dangerous in a dark, crowded smoky theater. This guy picked a perfect target, sadly.

This is also ridiculous-
Jessi Ghawi, an aspiring Colorado sports reporter who had narrowly escaped a Toronto mall shooting last month, was killed in the attack, her family says. Ghawi, who had blogged about her experience in Canada, "has indeed died of injuries sustained in the shooting," her brother, Jordan Ghawi, wrote Friday on his own blog.

Kugyince

07-20-2012, 05:59 PM

Maybe he can be in the third movie when they make a trilogy.

Dudebro

07-20-2012, 06:16 PM

Come on now Tenser I know you try to be edgy but that's not called for at all. Go post on 4chan or something if you wanna troll about dead people.

Kong

07-20-2012, 06:27 PM

Can't we have a catch-22 law that says:
Only can sane people buy tear gas, body proof armor and assault riffles; if you want to buy tear gas, body proof armor and assault riffles then you are crazy.

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

I thought this was the third movie.

Dudebro

07-20-2012, 06:34 PM

I've never heard of a "normal person" buying riot gear. It's always the nuts who think they need to defend against imagined persecution.

This is the third and last movie from Nolan.

samejamesbond

07-20-2012, 06:39 PM

Come on now Tenser I know you try to be edgy but that's not called for at all. Go post on 4chan or something if you wanna troll about dead people.

It's Tenser, he does as he pleases. Mostly at our displeasure.

I thought this was the third movie.

It is the third.

If he set up all those traps at his house, he most likely thought
it was going to be the end and he wasn't going to come back alive.

Here's more on his character:
James Eagan Holmes held in Colorado shooting - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/james-eagan-holmes-held-in-colorado-shooting/2012/07/20/gJQA213UyW_story.html)

Kugyince

07-20-2012, 07:58 PM

CNN Contributor Theorizes That Video Games May Be Connected to Colorado Shooting | GamePolitics (http://gamepolitics.com/2012/07/20/cnn-contributor-theorizes-video-games-may-be-connected-colorado-shooting)

samejamesbond

07-20-2012, 08:09 PM

Maybe it'd developers brainwashing select people around the world to
overthrow society and create a world run by technology.

You never know.

warghoul

07-20-2012, 08:10 PM

Favorite quote. "yeah, he was always playing the video games."

RU Joe

07-20-2012, 09:30 PM

I'm saddened beyond words that such things are happening more frequently.

But I'm afraid there's even more to this story, and as it says this is really eerie:

Jessica Ghawi, killed in Dark Knight Rises shooting, narrowly missed gunfire at Eaton Centre | Daily Brew - Yahoo! News Canada (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/jessica-redfield-killed-dark-knight-rises-shooting-narrowly-142258973.html)

It's like she knew, somehow.

Rest in Peace Jessica Ghawi and all the other victims of these horrible incidents.

I just wanted to add that I noticed just now Dudebro already touched on this - I'm not trying to steal your thunder, DB, just thought there was a bit more to the story than that.

Dudebro

07-20-2012, 10:20 PM

What more do you mean JG? Are you talking about something like the Final Destination movies where she was destined to die?

@About Tensers link - Conservapedia is already way ahead of that guy on CNN. They think video games should be brought up asap when someone commits a mass murder. They also think the "liberal college" he attended contributed. So yeah, that CNN dude is in great company.

RU Joe

07-20-2012, 11:09 PM

DB:
What more do you mean JG?
The parts in Jessica's report on the Toronto incident where she describes having a 'strange feeling' in her chest .. so yeah, sort of like the 'Final Destination' movies I suppose.
"I can't get this odd feeling out of my chest. This empty, almost sickening feeling won't go away. I noticed this feeling when I was in the Eaton Center in Toronto just seconds before someone opened fire in the food court. An odd feeling which led me to go outside and unknowingly out of harm's way. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around how a weird feeling saved me from being in the middle of a deadly shooting.

I believe it's what Soldiers used to call a 'hunch' or a 'gut feeling', and I believe we all have it to some extent.

I'm sorry that she didn't get a similar feeling at the movie theater.
This is just too awful for words.

CatalystiCam

07-20-2012, 11:57 PM

Well, no harm tonight when I saw the movie. Interestingly enough, the theatre was EMPTY! And tickets have not been selling well. Weird.

Dudebro

07-21-2012, 12:33 AM

That is weird JG.

Cam, why is it weird that ticket sales and attendance are down after a mass murder at one of the showing? Besides the fear and shock of this incident some people also didn't feel right going, like it's disrespectful.

CatalystiCam

07-21-2012, 01:34 AM

I'm not in Colorado, but I assumed the same thing.

SMASH

07-21-2012, 01:34 AM

This is just unbelievable.

Dudebro

07-21-2012, 01:43 AM

I'm not in Colorado, but I assumed the same thing.
I haven't heard of any showings actually being effected, besides in France where shows were called off as a show of mourning.

Personally I don't see the point in not going if you already plan to. As long as you're not trying to go to the theater it happened at there isn't really a point. I feel bad about those people being murdered but I'm still going to see the movie tomorrow.

CatalystiCam

07-21-2012, 02:42 AM

Personally I don't see the point in not going if you already plan to. As long as you're not trying to go to the theater it happened at there isn't really a point. I feel bad about those people being murdered but I'm still going to see the movie tomorrow.

Exactly.

I haven't heard of any showings actually being effected, besides in France where shows were called off as a show of mourning.

Probably a good sign of respect here though.

Tails

07-21-2012, 11:49 AM

This is incredibly sad, this "Joker" should rot in hell. =/

warghoul

07-21-2012, 11:55 AM

Every tragedy needs a little humor.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/some-fucking-guy-at-warner-bros-wondering-what-sho,28859/

Kugyince

07-21-2012, 06:34 PM

Too soon?
http://www.retrouprising.com/img/2012_07/1102.jpg

RU Joe

07-22-2012, 01:18 AM

Too soon?
http://www.retrouprising.com/img/2012_07/1102.jpg
Is that a screenshot from the movie?

Either way, it seems that 'too soon' simply doesn't exist anymore; remember the Luge accident at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Games? - very shortly after the accident someone posted an incredibly tasteless gif featuring him hurtling towards then impacting with the Twin Towers.

No one seems to care anymore, except the families and friends of the butt of the joke I guess.
Not sure what to say about this apparent cultural phenomenon except maybe it's a sign of our times???
:-\

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 01:32 AM

Same thing happened when Chris Benoit killed his wife and kid and then himself, within hours people were rushing to push the "too soon" envelope. Like this fine example of shamelessness, Benoit performing his signature flying headbutt -
http://www.retrouprising.com/img/2012_07/1103.jpg
There is no line anymore, at least on the internet.

sezthemank

07-22-2012, 05:21 AM

Im totally shocked to read about this news, infact the news was that BIG that it was on the front of most newspapers here in the UK too, I suppose the story has such a big shock factor.

I just wanna know where Batman was at this time?

StarfoxFan2009

07-22-2012, 08:18 AM

This is a horrible crime. I hope the guy gets the death sentence for this

CatalystiCam

07-22-2012, 01:38 PM

I remember the whole Benoit thing. Back when I actually watched the WWE. That all sucked, he was one of my favourites in the WWE at the time. Not anymore obviously. (I also don't watch the WWE now anyways).

RevJ

07-22-2012, 07:06 PM

I hope the guy gets the death sentence for this

Why?

I guess the PROs are:

* US citizenship gets base desire for revenge satisfied
* Jail costs are less

But the CONs - reasons to NOT apply the death sentence - are:

* Death sentence not actually a deterrent for others
* State says killing someone is OK - not much better than the accused
* Family deprived of a son/brother/cousin etc
* A dead person can't provide feedback on their reasons / what happened / how to prevent further similar attacks / can't participate in research
* Accused has the chance to be rehabilitated
* Argument that accused not sane (why would a sane person do this after all) - treat as mentally ill
* Ireversable

So ... why?

StarfoxFan2009

07-22-2012, 07:44 PM

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 07:55 PM

@Rev- I'd prefer if they just took him out back and put him down like a dog. There's no question about his guilt so I don't see why we should house him for years.

RevJ

07-22-2012, 07:57 PM

Rev, did you think those innocent people deserved being shot while trying to watch a movie? I honestly dont think he should. like Charles Manson mind you, live a long life so full and proud of what he himself accomplished. He should suffer as much as those families did when they lost their loved ones.

I take that as an argument for * US citizenship gets base desire for revenge satisfied

He won't suffer much though if he gets capital punishment. I understand the US does the actual death very humanely. Why not argue to put him through some state-sanctioned torture then? (In either case it doesn't bring the dead - who certainly didn't deserve to die - back to life)

StarfoxFan2009

07-22-2012, 07:58 PM

@Rev Torture as a legal punishment hasnt been used in years

RevJ

07-22-2012, 08:12 PM

@Rev Torture as a legal punishment hasnt been used in years

The US isn't adverse to it though. If you want him to suffer perhaps he could be quietly shipped overseas somewhere for a bit of the old "hows that feel for ya?" I don't condone torture (or capital punishment), I'm just extending the argument that some feel he should suffer.

DudeBro is right in that he would cost more to house. But he would then be a living breathing deterrent that if you commit such terrible crimes you will spend the rest of your days in jail. In terms of value for money, it might work out better to pay for him to be in jail, as the death penalty is not a deterrent for others.

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 09:04 PM

Putting people in jail isn't a deterrent really either. Specifically this guy is smart and gave himself up without a fight, he knew he'd be going to jail. Someone like that is not swayed by jail or the death penalty. That's why I think he should forfeit his life and not cost the rest of us money. He had his chance and he blew it.

Kong

07-22-2012, 09:16 PM

* Jail costs are less
Hard to believe but not true. Death penalty costs way more than life in prison.
Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty)
In Texas the death penalty costs an average of $2.3M. 40 years in highest security Texas prison costs about $700K. 1/3. Similar numbers are found in all states. No where in America is the death penalty cheaper than life in prison.

* Accused has the chance to be rehabilitatedOur prison system is designed for retribution, not rehabilitation. No matter what sentence he receives, he will not be rehabilitated.

I understand the US does the actual death very humanely.There is some debate about that. We use lethal injection and it paralyzes the body so they seem peaceful and asleep, but they are fully conscious and feel the pain and panic of suffocation. There are cheaper and less painful ways to do it but this one makes the viewers feel good.

Why not argue to put him through some state-sanctioned torture then?I think it is torture to tell someone the exact moment that they will die then lock them in a cell by themselves and make them wait for that moment.

But I want to repeat your question. Why should we kill evil bastards but not torture them?

The only argument for the death penalty that can remotely be called positive is retribution, revenge, eye for an eye. Death penalty has nothing to do with punishing the guilty. It is about making you feel better, satisfying your blood lust revenge. If you support the death penalty, ask yourself, why does the death of anyone, even an evil prick, make you feel better.

It is not about do they or do they not deserve to die. It is about you. Will your life be better because you supported the killing of someone else. Maybe it will but you should ask yourself how and why.

I'm not religious but I think Christianity has an important lessons for this. Forgive and let god handle the revenge.

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 09:34 PM

This is why I don't support the death penalty but I wouldn't mind if they just put a bullet in the head of people like this guy who are very obviously guilty of killing people. If there's any doubt then don't shoot them.

I don't care if that makes me selfish or short sighted. I firmly believe that someone who murders innocent people has given up their right to be treated humanely.

Kong

07-22-2012, 09:49 PM

Would you support killing him even if you knew it would cost more money to do so?

If yes, then why should we kill him instead of torturing him?

I think most pro-death penalty people are actually in the wrong line. They meant to be in the save money line and just incorrectly assumed it was the death line.

I think there is a big difference in incorrectly supporting the death penalty for finical reasons and supporting it for revenge.

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 10:56 PM

Would you support killing him even if you knew it would cost more money to do so?
Well if there was no cheaper option, like a handgun with one bullet, then sure. I can't see a situation where that would happen though.

If yes, then why should we kill him instead of torturing him?
I never said I was against torturing really. I suppose I am but not just because it seems inhumane but mainly because it serves no purpose. To what end are you gonna torture the person?

warghoul

07-22-2012, 11:06 PM

Well if there was no cheaper option, like a handgun with one bullet

You need 2 in the gun one in the chamber one in the clip. Just to make sure...It's called double tap for a reason. One in the head. one in the heart.>:D

Dudebro

07-22-2012, 11:14 PM

Well realistically you'd have a full clip, just in case, but the idea is one shot to end it quickly.

warghoul

07-22-2012, 11:33 PM

I know I was just thinking about that movie Millers Crossing. Or whatever it was called.

Slime Slayer

07-22-2012, 11:34 PM

Anyone care to explain why the death penalty costs more money? Anyone else dumbfounded by this?

Kugyince

07-23-2012, 03:43 AM

Court proceedings are dragged out much longer as the appeals process is lengthened greatly.

Winnebagel

07-23-2012, 09:49 AM

Maybe they should just "Clockwork Orange" the guy, and force him to watch "Batman and Robin" over and over. That might do the trick without the state having to pay too much.

RU Joe

07-23-2012, 02:07 PM

I understand what you guys are saying, and it makes me angry too, but .. if the general public were allowed to carry concealed pistols incidents like this would not only become far less likely but if they did occur people would be able to put the 'gunman' down immediately instead of having to run cowering.
Archie Bunker's Airport Security plan works, let's face it.

Archie Bunker Vs The TSA - YouTube

Let me put it to you another way:
There you are in location X {be it movie theater, mall food court, etc.} when all of a sudden someone starts shooting people.
How many shots do you think it would take before everyone around him drew their weapons and put him down? = 2, maybe 3 before they'd turn them into Swiss cheese.
Just saying.

On a different note, does anyone else find it strange that this guy managed to get in the theater with a pistol, assault rifle, and a shotgun?
Where were the people looking everyone over for 'outside' snacks and other things? - this guy must have had a large bag or a box or something to conceal the weapons - and I couldn't get in with a bag of peanuts if I wanted to .
Something is really fishy about that.

Either way I guess the TSA grope squads can be expected 'coming soon to a theater near you' - why not? they're already at sports games and high school proms ..
{ranting}

Kong

07-23-2012, 02:42 PM

He was wearing full riot gear - bullet proof vest, helmet, neck guard, groin guard, leggings (not sure what that means), and a gas mask. He had an assault riffle, the element of surprise, it was dark, he timed it so gun fire was already going off in the movie when he began shooting and he gassed the audience.

Even if every single person in the audience was packing, they probably couldn't have stopped him. Plus untrained civilians shooting guns in a crowded dark panicked theater would cause even more injuries and deaths.

Your argument would have worked 150 years ago in the old west. It fails today.

He came in through the fire exit. I am guessing he broke in.

Does anyone know how he was stopped?

http://www.retrouprising.com/img/2012_07/1121.jpg

wicked_jester

07-23-2012, 05:21 PM

hells ya

Dudebro

07-23-2012, 10:03 PM

Where were the people looking everyone over for 'outside' snacks and other things?
From video it looks like the theater was a small one compared to some of the gigantic monstrosities in the US. Where I live we have a pretty large theater(18 screens maybe?) and even then they just take your ticket before you enter the big hallway full of theaters on one side or the other. Once you get past the 80 year old lady taking tickets you're on your own. I've been sneaking stuff into theaters for years, no one cares unless you're obvious.

One thing is different though. In my theater an employee routinely comes into the theater with a red glowstick to check the fire exits. Without fail I've seen this happen every time I go. Also I'm sure our fire exits have alarms on them, there's no propping them out for a half hour.

leggings (not sure what that means)
I'm no expert obviously but from what I understand it's like the leg gear bomb squad would wear. It restricts mobility but it protects the legs from being targets. There was a dramatic bank robbery years ago where the guys wore protective gear and had assault rifles, police had to go to gun stores to match the firepower. It went on for a while and was only stopped when the cops realized they didn't have leg protection. Once they got that notice it was a done deal. I don't remember the details but I think the cops killed all but one of them and the other killed himself after his legs were hit badly.

He came in through the fire exit. I am guessing he broke in.From what I heard he bought a ticket and went into the theater and propped the fire exit. He waited like a half hour and then came in tossing the canisters and firing with a shotgun. It was most likely a very confusing and deadly scene. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people killed were near the exit and the shotgun did most of the damage.

Does anyone know how he was stopped?Last I heard his assault rifle jammed because of the 100 round clip not being a standard part, prone to problems. They assume he went outside to get more ammo or more guns(maybe even the explosive he had in there). Cops rolled up when he was at or going to his car. From the sound of it he removed some or all of his armor by then and he just gave up peacefully.

hells ya
Would you elaborate on that a little? What are you hell yeahing about?

Slime Slayer

07-23-2012, 11:05 PM

Court proceedings are dragged out much longer as the appeals process is lengthened greatly.
That can't be the only reason though right?

Dudebro

07-24-2012, 12:32 AM

There's also the housing, food and healthcare costs. It is a true fact, at least in the US.

Slime Slayer

07-24-2012, 12:43 AM

There's also the housing, food and healthcare costs. It is a true fact, at least in the US.
Well those things you listed would be substantially higher for an inmate serving 40 years.

Dudebro

07-24-2012, 12:45 AM

You'd be surprised how long death row inmates stay in jail. Combine that with all the legal costs and such and it makes sense. It's a well known thing, we're not just making it up. This is why I advocate the bullet in the brain method.

RevJ

07-24-2012, 01:04 AM

@Steven, http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf has some good info about the costs of the death penalty, particularly this bit:
FINANCIAL FACTS ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY
• A new study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978.
Study considered pre-trial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal
habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011).
• In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual
costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban
Institute, 2008).
• In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of
incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003).
• Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers
with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost
of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per
execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial
level. (Duke University, May 1993).
• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a
single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

If you think that doc might to too anti capital punishment, Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org (http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001000) appears to list the 'pros' and 'cons' pretty well.

This is why I advocate the bullet in the brain method.

So to cut costs you'd dispense with the entire appeals processes etc? Despite the fact that dozens of innocent people have been released from death row over the last couple of decades? Do things summary justice Judge Dredd style?

Dudebro

07-24-2012, 01:06 AM

@RevJ- I already said my method only applies to those who are obviously guilty, like this guy. If there's doubt then no, go to trial and figure it out.

RU Joe

07-24-2012, 01:54 AM

Perhaps it was a bit shocking to hear that coming from me, with all of my talk about Peace and Equality.
Yes, Kong, you're right there probably would be some ricochets and stray bullets causing more injuries but I wonder if it wouldn't be worth the gamble.

In such circumstances I would tend to think those were going to be my final moments, and given the choice I think I would at least like to be able to return fire rather than just be gunned down helplessly.
Maybe that's what I should have said instead.

Kugyince

07-24-2012, 03:51 AM

@RevJ- I already said my method only applies to those who are obviously guilty, like this guy. If there's doubt then no, go to trial and figure it out.

Who gets to decide which cases are "obviously guilty" and which ones aren't?

I don't mean to be rude but your logic behind this seems immature or at the very least not well thought out.

Slime Slayer

07-24-2012, 05:39 AM

@RevJ, Thanks for the info, I still think the whole thing is absurd and is needlessly expensive, but what do I know.

Kong

07-24-2012, 08:57 AM

The added expenses are from legal fees and court costs. Several innocent people end up on death row. The death penalty is a finial decision with no take backs. If you screw up and kill an innocent person (which we have) then you are no better than the murders that you are trying to punish.

This guy seems obviously guilty and I am going to guess he is not going to try fighting in court too hard. Not sure how that changes the cost of the death penalty. I assume it should make it much cheaper but I don't know.

News channels will make a fortune on this case. It would be nice if they donated some of their pure profit to legal fees and the victims.

@DB. Your one bullet plan would save probably $10K. Not bad but we are talking about millions of dollars. In order to save real money you have to either
A) skip "innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt" - I know this guy is a special case and it isn't going to take much to find him guilty but treating some people different is a slippery slope.
or
B) reform legal fees - seems ridiculous that even the most thorough trial could cost over a million. I think some money must be slipping through bureaucratic cracks.

warghoul

07-24-2012, 10:09 AM

There's also the housing, food and healthcare costs. It is a true fact, at least in the US.
It bothers me to think about this. In one year I pay more for these "Human Rights" than the average American makes. Now I'm proud to say I earn this and can afford it, but the lowly inmate who is plaguing society get's it for free. Is this what my tax dollars are going for? I paid 20,000 in taxes last year and no one once asked me what they should put it towards. Why should I pay for this scumbags healthcare so he can be healthily executed in 20 years. I'll take care of him now for free.

Kong

07-24-2012, 10:44 AM

If it makes you feel better, of that $20K you spent on taxes last year less than $1 went towards death row inmates.

You spent more on taxes than the average American makes, but very little of that went to human rights. About $11K of your 20K went to the military.

That $20K was just income tax. Don't forget sales tax, gas tax, import tax, inflation tax etc. Inflation is a tax just like any other and is close to 5% per year. Sales tax is around 8%. Gas tax is about 50 cents per gallon. After adding all taxes together you easily gave the government over 25K and 54% of that went straight to the world's largest military ever.

You spent $13K on war last year. You spent $1 on making sure our court system avoids killing innocent people. If you have a problem with your taxes, blame the military not human rights.

Dudebro

07-24-2012, 11:01 AM

Who gets to decide which cases are "obviously guilty" and which ones aren't?

I don't mean to be rude but your logic behind this seems immature or at the very least not well thought out.
Well in cases like this one where there's no doubt the suspect did it. What are we going to court for?

warghoul

07-24-2012, 11:06 AM

When you put it like that I wonder why I work at all. Why can't my taxes go to cool things, like fixing the crappy roads I drive on or the now defunct space program. I realize not a lot of my money is going towards death row inmates it's a very small percentage of the population. It's the American Prison system in general I have a problem with.

Kugyince

07-24-2012, 11:29 AM

Well in cases like this one where there's no doubt the suspect did it. What are we going to court for?

Again my question is; who is the one who gets to decide which people are beyond any possibility guilty and who aren't? I haven't been following the case so you may well be more informed than I but you are actually ready to stand up and say this person must die from only what you've heard/read from the media?

I'm certainly not willing to make that call nor would I feel comfortable with anyone else being made into judge, jury, and executioner.

Dudebro

07-24-2012, 12:36 PM

I haven't been following the case
It's 100% certain he did it. There's the possibility that he didn't act alone but besides surrendering at the scene he's not cooperating with the investigation so it's not like keeping him alive will help in that regard.

Either way it's not like I'm running for office and BulletToTheBrain is something I'm seriously pushing. I'm just tired of obviously guilty people milking the system and languishing on at our expense. In some cases we should just cut to the chase. They don't wanna be a member of society anymore, let's help them fully meet that goal.

Kugyince

07-24-2012, 02:35 PM

Agreed.

We should remove the death penalty all together. I'm all for life without parole.

Saves the tax payers money. Lets them rot in jail for the rest of their lives. Isn't so final just in case we did screw up and get the wrong guy.

Winnebagel

07-24-2012, 03:07 PM

Isn't so final just in case we did screw up and get the wrong guy.

I agree with this part especially. With organizations like The Innocence Project showing more and more cases of wrongful convictions, it makes an argument for that side.

I am not inheirently opposed to the DP if it is proved absolutely like via video or whatever, but anything short of this, should be very carfully meted out in my opinion.

Kong

07-24-2012, 03:32 PM

I think most would agree, just doing what he did means he must be crazy.

If he pleads insanity will that change you opinion on the punishment he should receive?

Winnebagel

07-24-2012, 03:46 PM

I think most would agree, just doing what he did means he must be crazy.

If he pleads insanity will that change you opinion on the punishment he should receive?

The insanity plea is one thing I never really understood. If someone does something reprehensible like this (versus say a crime of passion done in the heat of the moment), wouldn't it mean they were automatically insane? If so, why would that change the sentence one way or the other? Isn't the idea to separate the person from society whether it be by incarceration or the DP?

kiwinavega

07-24-2012, 04:26 PM

No sane person would do this so, by definition, the dealth penalty would be killing someone because of their illness.

Segregate them from society, fine. If that means life in a mental institution, fine. Killing is killing, whether an individual does it or the state. It's still murder.

We should have higher aspirations for ourselves and our species than that.

Kugyince

07-24-2012, 04:46 PM

Thought I'd share this with you guys as it went over well in chat.

A True Hero: 19-Year Old Jarrell Brooks Helps Young Mother & Her Kids Escape "Dark Knight Rises' Massacre After Being Shot *UPDATE* Boyfriend Had Abandoned Fiance & Kids [Video] - ThisIs50.com (http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blogs/a-true-hero-19-year-old-jerrell-brooks-helps-young-mother-her?xg_source=activity)

A Colorado teenager who survived the mass shooting at a midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora Thursday morning helped keep a young mother, her young child and her 4-month-old infant safe even though he was injured himself.

Jarell Brooks, 19, has been released from Denver General Hospital and is now recovering at home after he suffered a gunshot wound to the leg after James Holmes, once a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Colorado, allegedly set off smoke bombs and opened fire on the unsuspecting audience, killing 12 people and injuring at least 50 in the attack. He was quickly apprehended by authorities.

Brooks said that when Holmes started shooting everyone scrambled for the exits. While trying to get out of the theater, he saw a woman, later identified as Patricia Legarreta, struggling to get herself and her two children out. He said he crawled on top of Legarreta in an attempt to push her and the kids out the door but then couldn't get out himself.

Brooks told ABC News that even though he's recovering at home, he is still shaken by the attack.

"At the end of the aisle, I ran into a woman. She yelled, 'My kids!' and I saw she had two young kids with her," he told ABC News. "I made sure they got in the aisle and pushed behind her to make sure she got out of there."

That's when Brooks said he felt a shot to his leg. Brooks said he was shot in the thigh, and fell to the ground.

Patricia Legarreta was also hit.

"We fell together," Brooks said. "I picked myself back up and continued to the back exit door, on one leg."

Legarreta was at the movies with her fiance and their two young children that night when she was shot. Her infant son was on the floor but wasn't hit.

"I was thinking, I have to get this family out, without getting hit myself. I managed to do one," Brooks told ABC News.

Legarreta was hit with buckshot and released from the hospital Friday morning. She is now recovering at home, where she spoke with ABC News and confirmed what happened -- that when she stood up to move her daughter, she was shot, and Brooks hit the ground with her.

She said that she remembered yelling, "I got hit," and Brooks screaming in pain.

The young mother said that after the shooting stopped she didn't really know what happened but was relieved to know that there were young men like Brooks in the world.

"It makes me feel glad because I felt helpless," she said. "Everybody at that moment was going through it, and to know that someone had that mindset, it makes me feel happy to know that in times of trial, there are good people out there."

The reason Patricia Legarreta was alone in the theater with her two young children is because her boyfriend/fiance, Jamie Rohrs, ran out of the theater leaving them to fend for themselves. The boyfriend actually got outside safely to his truck. Patricia later called him so he could come back to the theater and pick her and his kids up.

If not for Jarrell Brooks who knows what might have happened to her and the kids.

The boyfriend later proposed to Patricia and she said yes.