Megaupload down, FBI Charges Seven With Online Piracy

[fungusman]

This is stupid.

FBI Charges Seven With Online Piracy - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052970204616504577171060611948408-lMyQjAxMTAyMDEwOTExNDkyWj.html)

So when they are done this witch hunt are they coming after RU next ?

[Tails]

I thought I read 'Steven' instead of Seven..

[Dudebro]

Not that I side with the law on this one but why would you say it's stupid? These guys knew the risks involved so it shouldn't really be a shock when they get busted. It's hard to deny what they were doing was illegal, right?

[RU Joe]

Fungus:
So when they are done this witch hunt are they coming after RU next ?Yes, sites and companies first, then individuals I think.
I told you guys this crackdown/censorchip was on its way a couple of years ago but no one seemed to want to believe it.
Well, here it is, and I'm sorry you guys.

IT'S BEEN FUN, and for the record I want you to know RU has been my favorite Arcade of all time = possibly the greatest ever in existence.
As I played the games I would imagine the rest of you there with me, standing at whichever console you happened to be playing at the time while neon lights shone from the ceiling and the sweet music of 1000 or more games mixed in the air.

Yes I know we're not gone yet but it seems only a matter of time now.
I'm going to miss you guys and indeed the Internet in general {as we know it} as well.
It's been fun, hasn't it?
:'(

[Dudebro]

At least we're small compared to other sites so we'll stay under the radar for quite some time if a crackdown does happen. I think.

[jim5cents]

I don't see the connection between Megaupload and RU.

Megaupload is a peer to peer sharing site similar to something like Napster or Kaaza where people illegally downloading copyrighted material, correct? There are currently laws on the books that make that illegal.

To me, this makes the need for PIPA and SOPA redundant. Piracy outside of the US borders is what those bills are made to stop, yet, it appears there are already laws that allow US law enforcement to take those people down.

[Kong]

The super stupid part is

America arrested and extradited non U.S. citizens that live and work outside of America for doing something that is completely legal to do even if you lived in America.

I do think that what Mega Upload was doing should probably be addressed and changed in some way, but kidnapping foreign citizens and censoring the Internet is obviously not the right way to go.

A conspiracy rant:

Add to that, on last New Year's Eve the US passed a bill that said we do not have to have due process (trials) when holding people indefinitely without charges. That law only applies in specific cases and I do not know if this is one, but since MU did not break any real law that seems pretty scary that there are some situations where you could ever be held without trial in America. That is kidnapping, not arrest.

1 in 100 adult U.S citizens are currently in U.S. prisons. An additional 2 out 100 are currently on parole or probation. That does not include juvenile detention.

In the past 40 years the number of people in U.S. prisons has multiplied by about 10 and is still rising.

The U.S. keeps a larger portion and a larger number of it's people in jail than any other country in the world. The second most in recorded history, just behind the Soviet Union post WW2 era.

Think about that. That is insane. Do we really want to lead the world in locking people up?

Why does the U.S. need to arrest far more people than any other country? Are we really such a bad group of people that over 1% of the U.S. deserve to be locked away at all times? No, I don't think so. So there is another reason.

One reason, jails are profitable, we, the people, are taxed and our money goes to private companies that run the jails. The private companies lobby more prisoners. Prisoners = $.

You can also take that a step farther and say it also is the beginning of a police state. A first step of a police state is you need to be able to maintain a large portion of the population in prison at all times and we are far superior at that than Bush's Axis of Evil, North Korea, Iran, and Iraq.


So when they are done this witch hunt are they coming after RU next ?Doubtful, megaupload is much larger than we are. According to the article, MU had $175Millon in profits. RU barely covers it's server costs. They want to make examples, we are not a very good one.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

It's hard to deny what they were doing was illegal, right?
Wrong.
These guys knew the risks involved so it shouldn't really be a shock when they get busted.
Wrong. They broke no law, they don't live or work in America. Why would they think they were at risk of being arrested and extradited to America for not breaking a law.

The current law that SOPA is trying to replace is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is an American law, MU is not American yet they followed that law anyway because most countries have been pressured by America to enforce it.

It is possible that they did not follow all the steps in DMCA but I am pretty sure they did.

[Mareeps]

Besides, if RU was went after, doesn't RU have permission from Nintendo and various other companies to stay open? At least that's what I heard.

[Kong]

Megaupload is a peer to peer sharing site similar to something like Napster or KaazaTechnically, no, torrents and Piratebay are P2P like Napster.

Megaupload uses a central server, not 2 peers. From a legal and technical stand point that is very different. From a user stand point it is about the same.

where people illegally downloading copyrighted material, correct?That is not it's main use, it is a side effect. The same as Youtube's intention is not to distribute Family Guy clips, but it does none the less.

There are currently laws on the books that make that illegal.Nope. Youtube is a better comparison than Napster.

To me, this makes the need for PIPA and SOPA redundant. Piracy outside of the US borders is what those bills are made to stop, yet, it appears there are already laws that allow US law enforcement to take those people down.
DMCA is the current law. There are loopholes that SOPA hopes to plug, but it will suffer from most of the same loopholes.

The loopholes are
1. If a user, not the owner of the site makes the upload then the owner is not legally responsible unless the owner fails to remove the content shortly after being properly notified.
2. The owner can put ads or charge for the content if they are reasonably certain it is not copyright infringement.
3. Links are fair game. This is the torrent loophole.
4. Some countries can not be bullied by America to enforce American laws. This is the Piratebay loophole.

DMCA is the main law that applies in this case. If MU did break one of the rules of the DMCA it was probably failing to meet the legal definition of the word "reasonable" in #2.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

Besides, if RU was went after, doesn't RU have permission from Nintendo and various other companies to stay open? At least that's what I heard.The law works kind of in the reverse of that, they need to revoke permission. They have thus far chosen not to. They can change their mind. If they changed their mind it would only become a crime if we then refused to respect their wishes.

[fungusman]

Megaupload is an AWESOME cloud hosting service. My newest album is (was) on there.

Pirates can turn your computer into a file server without you even knowing. Not that megaupload didn't have some sort of "implied" image of piracy to it, but, in the future what happens when people star hosting AE2 encrypted .rar files on other cloud sources ?
You know you can do this with GMAIL right ? Your (most likely EASILY hackable if you were careless enough to pirate windows or anything else [pirated materials major purpose is to distribute virus/trojans so people can add you to their botnet]) computer can host warez. The point is shutting down services won't stop the problem at all.

Taking down megaupload is throwing the baby out with the bath water and this will set the precedent to go further down the chain to the point where you get sued because you wiped your butt in a way that was patented by mistake.

[Dudebro]

@Kong- About your jail rant, if they legalized weed we'd have a lot less people in jail. It's sickening that people can be locked up with hardcore criminals and have their life ruined for using/selling a plant that grows naturally. It's also sickening that we're being punished for choosing what to put in our own bodies. Throw people in jail for booze or cigarettes and see how fast the laws change.

Those guys knew dealing in copyrighted material is considered illegal, even if it's not in their country. I wasn't saying they should've expected the US to come after them, that's a pretty strange and scary turn of events.

They did know the risks but apparently the risk that got them was something most people didn't see coming, rightfully so.


Taking down megaupload is throwing the baby out with the bath water
Agreed. It's like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.

[Kong]

The point is shutting down services won't stop the problem at all.This is very true. It is technically impossible to stop piracy with this method. If you shut down sites like piratebay, megaupload, youtube etc. then pirates will just create something more advanced. It is impossible for police to compete with pirates when the pirates get to choose the battlefield.

It's also sickening that we're being punished for choosing what to put in our own bodies.I can't understand how you can't claim drugs are protected under freedom of religion. Prove that my religion, my personal relationship with god, does not involve me making my decisions for my body for myself. I believe in that as much as anyone else believes that drinking blessed wine is the same as drinking the blood of Jesus.

Those guys knew dealing in copyrighted material is considered illegalDo you know how megauplaod works? It is the exact same thing as youtube except that they have user uploaded files instead of user uploaded videos. Megaupload provided a service, the service has good intentions. Some users use the service for copy right infringement. When MU is made aware of that, they delete the files and ban the user.

The only other choice MU had was to 1. personally confirm that every file was public domain, this would be impossible. 2. Not exist at all.

You either give individuals the ability to upload files to the internet and accept that occasionally there will be some bad apples or you say no one anywhere in the world can do it. So far there has not been a proposed third option.

Something that is often forgotten in this debate, parts of the world do not see intellectual property as real. Forcing your culture on others is not nice.

[Dudebro]

Do you know how megauplaod works? It is the exact same thing as youtube except that they have user uploaded files instead of user uploaded videos. Megaupload provided a service, the service has good intentions. Some users use the service for copy right infringement. When MU is made aware of that, they delete the files and ban the user.
Nah I'm not too familiar with it since I never use anything like it. I just think it's pretty obvious to everyone that hosting potentially copyrighted material, intentionally or not, comes with risks. That's why so many youtube videos are garbage, they remove the sound for copyright infringement. I can't even listen to certain Bob Dylan songs on there, it's ridiculous.

[CatalystiCam]

sorry to be "that guy that needs this explained", but I didn't really hear about this until recently, and I don't know many details. Can someone sum it up to me what exactly is at risk? Do I have to take sown my avatars and signatures because they may be from somewhere else? Sum it up for me please.

Thanks

[520outlaw]

you know whats funny is me and my bro were talking about sopa last night and we both said that this was going to happen.... anonymous knows exactly what they are doing so let our GREAT, SMART(sarcasm) Us gov piss off these ppl who have time after time takin down gov sites.. and meanwhile piss off major powerhouse companys around the world. If this bill actually goes thru we will piss off ALOT of ppl around the world. Including Anonymous who will start shutting down Official us gov websites which opens a whole new line of problems ...ex shutting down army and dept of def sites leaving the us open to attack from other countrys. I dont think the Us gov knows who they are f@@@ing with.
I read something a while back that apple has more money sitting than the US does, so lets piss them off as well. Doin this is goin to dip in the pockets of alot of ppl around the world, which is goin to piss them off Badly!! And we all have seen time after time the us gov is not smart AT ALL EVER. we are a nation of retards..this just proves it.. i dont think they know the door they are opening and they are not gonna be able to close ...closing down things like google and such is goin to end life as we know it...we might as well go back to land lines and snail mail because this is pretty much gonna make computers useless as well as all your Android (google) cell phone and blackberry ext that run with the net... so we might as well get back to doing things the old fashioned way because if this happens its gonna be coming soon after... the ppl who are pirating are gonna keep doin it they will just find better ways to do it... to stop this they are going to have to shut the internet down COMPLETLY in the usa...There goes the constitution... We will create a totally new underground black market by doin this and its probably gonna be dangerous ... i think they need to stop while they are ahead and not open this door because opening this door is gonna be like cutting of your nose to spite your face...its definatly gonna get ugly quick if this happens....thats what i think

[DrunkN]

sorry to be "that guy that needs this explained", but I didn't really hear about this until recently, and I don't know many details. Can someone sum it up to me what exactly is at risk? Do I have to take sown my avatars and signatures because they may be from somewhere else? Sum it up for me please.

Thanks
I assume you want the article explained. "Megaupload", a file hosting site (based in some area not under U.S.A jurisdiction) at which some individuals saw fit to host pirated software, has been shut down by the C.I.A. which deemed it and it's core members to be advocates of piracy. By the look of it, they may be shipped into the United States to be put into a U.S. prison.

[fungusman]

Nah I'm not too familiar with it since I never use anything like it. I just think it's pretty obvious to everyone that hosting potentially copyrighted material, intentionally or not, comes with risks. That's why so many youtube videos are garbage, they remove the sound for copyright infringement. I can't even listen to certain Bob Dylan songs on there, it's ridiculous.

It's a fast/awesome cloud server. Kind of like Amazon or Dropbox. Basically they have a ton of servers/harddrives and they give you space for free or pay to host files there.

The thing is, hypothetically, I could encrypt a movie into a file you wouldn't even be able to tell what it is, with a password unbreakable (I know what your thinking and no, there are encryption algorithms that can't be cracked yet), split the file up into separate archives, spread them around on different servers (maybe I could use gmail, an infected computer, or even torrent) create a database/tracker and spread it that way. Make some user friendly site to piece all this crap together for easier access, others follow, and then what ? Shut down gmail ? Your computer that you accidentally installed malware on it that's being exploited ?

It's freaking ridiculous. Piracy has been around for years, and the only people it hurt are the ones who are only in it for Monopolistic dominance. Trying to protect content from being exchanged with other people is like trying to make water not wet.

It's the philosophies and mind sets that need get together and communicate and come to a resolution for something that works for everyone. But for now it looks like it's people who know nothing about technology and how to leverage it to continue making money vs people who know how to make money regardless of "piracy".

It gets me angry sometimes man it really does.

[Dudebro]

I know what your thinking and no, there are encryption algorithms that can't be cracked yetAh but you didn't know what I was thinking, I know there's stuff that remains uncracked. They aren't impossible, nothing is, but they're so damn encrypted it will take lifetimes at the current rate, right?


@520Outlaw- I'm surprised to see you, welcome back. I think you don't give the government enough credit. Sure the politicians are as dumb as rocks but our intelligence agencies and other covert groups are not. Some very smart people work in the dark recesses of our country. It's not safe to assume they're gonna be unaware of all the possibilities.

Think of it this way. For every smart hacker there's at least one person who goes the other route and gets paid big money for their talent from these groups.

[Slime Slayer]

For every smart hacker there's at least one person who goes the other route and gets paid big money for their talent from these groups.
I'd say it's probably closer to around 10,000 to 1.

[Dudebro]

Either way it doesn't matter, the point is it's foolish to assume the major world governments are stupid. They have smart people working around the clock.

[Kong]

I just read Megaupload - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here are some of the listed reasons for the indictment.

Persons indicted have "instructed individual users how to locate links to infringing content on the Mega Sites ... [and] ... have also shared with each other comments from Mega Site users demonstrating that they have used or are attempting to use the Mega Sites to get infringing copies of copyrighted content."

Persons indicted, unlike the public, are not reliant upon links to stored files, but can search the internal database directly. It is claimed they have "searched the internal database for their associates and themselves so that they may directly access copyright-infringing content".

A comprehensive takedown method is in use to identify child pornography, but not deployed to remove infringing content.

Infringing users did not have their accounts terminated, and the defendants "made no significant effort to identify users who were using the Mega Sites or services to infringe copyrights, to prevent the uploading of infringing copies of copyrighted materials, or to identify infringing copies of copyrighted works"

Defendants explicitly discussed evasion and infringement issuesAccording to the DMCA those actions are illegal. But it still sounds messed up to arrest someone in New Zealand for doing business in Hong Kong for breaking a U.S. law and ship them to the U.S. to face trial and prison and fines.

Imagine if an American cartoonist drew picture of Muhammad while working for a Canadian newspaper and Iran asked the Canada to arrest the cartoonist and ship him to Iran for trial.

Sum it up for me please.
If you mean this thread, MegaUpload.com was shut down by the FBI and the owners are being shipped to America for trial.

MegaUpload is like Youtube except for files instead of videos.

If you mean SOPA, it is a proposed bill that has not been voted on yet.

Example: If it was a law, and if you made a blog, and you posted a link to a news story on ABC and a year later someone posted a comment on ABC and that comment included a photo of a dog and someone says they own that photo (they can lie or be wrong) then you will be charged with a felony. Your site will be shut down and you will be banned from using Visa, Master Card, Pay Pal, Google, GoDaddy or any other company that is based in America. You will face huge legal expenses even if you are eventually found innocent and if you depend on your website for your livelihood then you will be unemployed until you do prove yourself innocent. The idea of innocent until proven guilty is removed by this law.

The end result, the rest of the world will say screw America, let's make an America-less internet.

1. I am pretty sure there is no way SOPA will become a law, it is just two stupid.
2. If it did then it would be like prohibition. Everything will be obviously horrible and the law will be repealed.
3. If it passes they will not enforce the law uniformly. They will go after sites like The Pirate Bay first, then after they finish with everyone like that move on to sites like Youtube. They will very rarely go after small sites and individuals because they will be too busy with the big ones.
4. Google links to more torrents than The Pirate Bay. But The Pirate Bay will be the first target of this law. If this was law Google would probably never have to face up to it simply because the outrage of shutting them down would be too huge. Laws should not work that way, justice should be blind. It is like saying O.J. Simpson can kill people because he used to be pretty good at football.

@Cam, short answer, it sucks but don't stress about it. If you can let a politician know you oppose it, then do that. But no need to worry about things like your avatar. One of the problems about the law is it says if your avatar is copyrighted, I am responsible, not you.

there are encryption algorithms that can't be cracked yetLockheed Martin has a computer that can theoretically crack any code. They are the only company that has the ability. Scary! I'ld imagine they have read Wikileaks digital thermonuclear bomb. And didn't say anything about it. Scarier!!

go back to land lines
The phone line in front of my house was knocked down in a storm 10 days ago. It is still down. I don't think anyone cared enough to complain to the phone company and let them know that our block has no land line.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------

I know there's stuff that remains uncracked. They aren't impossible, nothing is, but they're so damn encrypted it will take lifetimes at the current rate, right?Assuming you are not going to wait multiple lifetimes, it is impossible to crack strong encryption without a quantum computer. So far, there is only one quantum computer in the world. It is owned by Lockheed Martin. The extreme most likely reason that they bought it was to crack encryptions for military purposes. I would guess they will rent the service out to both sides of a conflict.


For every smart hacker there's at least one person who goes the other route and gets paid big money for their talent from these groups.It is not about who is smarter. The game is rigged, unfair. You can not prevent piracy, no matter how smart you are.

I imagine the American government is smarter than the majority of drug dealers and moonshiners. It didn't make a difference, they still lost the drug war and alcohol prohibition. It just isn't something you can stop.

[Slime Slayer]

Well they have a few more to go:
FileSonic, DepositFiles, FileServe, TurboBit, ExtaBit, FilePost, BitShare, Ziddu, UploadStation, FileJungle, MediaFire, PutLocker, FileFactory, RapidShare, FreakShare, ZShare, HotFile, Crocko, Wupload, Uploading, MegaShare, Badongo, iFileIt, EnterUpload, GameFront, UploadedTo, FileApe, Loadto, TwoShared, FileKeen, JumboFiles ect. ect.

[Kong]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that MegaUpload sued Universal Music Group last month. Megaupload - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload#Megaupload_song_controversy)

[Demon-Mask]

Oh no, they shut down Megaupload, what ever will pirates do? It's not like there are other services to do the same thing or anything like that.

[samejamesbond]

Time to switch to MediaFire.

[Demon-Mask]

Mediafire imposes a 200 MB limit per-file. Still, it's incredibly fast and has no limits on downloading in terms of size or wait time, so you can download the same file in several parts much faster.

[Dudebro]

It is not about who is smarter. The game is rigged, unfair. You can not prevent piracy, no matter how smart you are.
I'm not saying it's about who's smarter. I was only bringing it up because he implied that the government is stupid and unable to deal with or see all the possibilities. It's a dangerous thing to believe imo.

[Kong]

unable to deal with or see all the possibilities. I do think they are unable to see all the possibilities or are not in it to win. If they did see the possibilities they would waive the white flag.

[Dudebro]

That's kinda naive. You know how good the world governments are at spinning blame and misdirecting attention to something else. Even if they know their chances are grim they'll still go for it and gamble. The only time they concede or surrender is when they are caught dead to rights and have no option to lie about it anymore.

Being smart doesn't mean they have to be honest, right?

[fungusman]

http://i.imgur.com/v1hrU.png

Oh god my sides XD !

[Kong]

That is what I mean by
or are not in it to win
I imagine most people involved with the drug war, the war on terror and anti-piracy think of it as 1. theater, a show. and 2. a paycheck. I bet very few of them have delusions of making a difference.

[Dudebro]

@Fungusman- So you're sarcastic rate up of me was you saying that the world governments have no smart people working on the opposite side of the hackers and other groups? Remember I'm not talking about politicians.

[warghoul]

That is what I mean by

I imagine most people involved with the drug war, the war on terror and anti-piracy think of it as 1. theater, a show. and 2. a paycheck. I bet very few of them have delusions of making a difference.

Did you ever see those coast guard guys throwing kilo's overboard and celebrating they think there making a differance

[CatalystiCam]

Thanks for the explanation. Hopefully it never passes, but it would make sense why it wouldn't

[fungusman]

@Umadbro lot's of top tech guys working for government agencies yes.

[Dudebro]

Fine if you wanna be childish about I won't bother taking you seriously. Have fun with that.

[fungusman]

@umadbro I wasn't being childish

@everyone watch this !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ

[Dudebro]

Yeah you are, give it a rest. I was looking to have an actual discussion about this not some sarcastic nonsense with a tired meme tossed in. The funny part is I'm not mad or even heated about this at all. Disagreeing doesn't mean someone is all bent out of shape.

[Kong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ
It is doubtful that they stored any identifying information about users. They probably have credit card records but not attached to what you did and didn't download. He might be right, but I doubt it. And he is only guessing, not basing it on any facts.

[fungusman]

This is where they were arrested.
http://i.imgur.com/jCUvA.jpg

Pretty hard to see these guys as under dogs when they are making money off other peoples content like this. It's one thing to have a modest living from ad revenue or something but this isn't going to look good in court.

[Slime Slayer]

The file hosting site, uploaded.to has blocked all traffic comming from the U.S. in response to the Megaupload seizure.

[RevJ]

I imagine most people involved with the drug war, the war on terror and anti-piracy think of it as 1. theater, a show. and 2. a paycheck. I bet very few of them have delusions of making a difference.

The impression I always had (as an Australian) is that the powers-that-be thought they could WIN a battle against "terror" or "drugs" and it was that delusion that worried me. Either that or an insincere effort to score votes (which would be option 1. above)? 2. is basically bribery, that's also a worry.

Did you ever see those coast guard guys throwing kilo's overboard and celebrating they think there making a differance

Pardon me if I'm being flippant, but an image the Australian media love to show is that of police standing around a big pile of burning (confiscated) marijuana. I'm not sure if the police think they are making a difference, but they sure have big smiles on their faces! :dance:

[Tails]

flippant?

[Demon-Mask]

Flippant | Define Flippant at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flippant)

[Slime Slayer]

Better angle:
http://i.imgur.com/byeAe.jpg

[Dudebro]

They have a hedge maze? I no longer have any sympathy.

Seriously though do they really need ALL those damn cars? That looks like it's a commune and lots of people live there. Lots of rich people.

[Slime Slayer]

Well you can be at least be sympathetic to people who use the program to back up their important data, or to people like Fung who use the program to distribute their own intellectual properties. But that place does scream of "drug dealer".

[Dudebro]

I was kidding, I wouldn't be so shallow as to really flip flop like that.

[Slime Slayer]

I was kidding, I wouldn't be so shallow as to really flip flop like that.
Oh.

[Kong]

Is that their house? Company offices? Combo office/house? Resort they were visiting?

If that is how they were living then I am going to guess that in addition to making $175M on this they also went into great debt and were borrowing money that will now never be paid back.

Assuming they got that rich purely from piracy and therefor were stealing money from the entertainment industry. The money would have just ended up in the pockets of the owners of Universal Music Group and Sony. Some other talentless scum would have been living in that mansion.

In other words, seems like thieving buttholes stealing from thieving buttholes.

I think both sides are deeply in the wrong. I think the whole entertainment industry business model needs to be recreated. We no longer need, publishers, distributes, labels, etc. Cut the middle man out, buy directly from the artist.

---------- Post added at 02:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

It is hard to have sympathy for someone who lived that large. Did they do anything philanthropic at all?

[fungusman]

From what I can gather they didn't really play politics well. Youtube has more copy infringed works on it's website then mega upload did I would suspect. Youtube probably makes more money off of copyright infringed content then mega upload too.

Could you imagine not being able to go on youtube to listen to a song ? It's got some deep philosophical stuff surrounding it.

---------- Post added 01-24-2012 at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was 01-23-2012 at 08:18 AM ----------

The plot thickens ...
Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service? | TechCrunch (http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/24/was-megaupload-targeted-because-of-its-upcoming-megabox-digital-jukebox-service/)

[Squall]

The link sounds like exactly what Kong was saying - cut the middle man, let the artist sell the art.

[fungusman]

The link sounds like exactly what Kong was saying - cut the middle man, let the artist sell the art.

I could have told you this 12 years ago.

[OmegaShadow]

I could have told you this 12 years ago.
You mean when you were negative eleven years old? That's mildly impressive.

[fungusman]

You mean when you were negative eleven years old? That's mildly impressive.

What ?

[OmegaShadow]

Your date of birth says "January 1 (2011)"

[fungusman]

Ah ! ok :D

[Demon-Mask]

Could you imagine not being able to go on youtube to listen to a song ?
Yeah, I can. I didn't have internet access at all until 2008. I'm pretty sure you predate youtube, so I think you have a grasp on the concept.
It'd still piss me off. I like having the ability to listen to music on youtube, but it isn't a necessity.

I just don't want SOPA to pass and ruin the internet and start internet warfare.

[fungusman]

Oh man ! XD

HAHAHAHA !!!! A must read !!!

Mega-man: The fast, fabulous, and fraudulent life of Kim Dotcom (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/mega-man-the-bizarre-rise-and-sudden-downfall-of-kim-dotcom.ars?)

[Dudebro]

I have a hard time being sympathetic towards him after reading all that. I think there's no doubt he knew what he was doing and figured he could get away with it by living in NZ. Funny how NZ didn't even want him despite him throwing money at them. Also it looks like he's another rich guy who needs money to get laid.

[fungusman]

So conflicted man, I'm gonna have to meditate on this one. I don't think file sharing is bad, but I can see why people went after this dude.

[Dudebro]

It's ok to hate the player and not the game.

[fungusman]

I think it comes down to the word "exploit".

If 100,000 copies of a wii game get downloaded, it's not exploitation if people are downloading for personal use.
If made a website that hosted a wii game for 100,000 people to download from it isn't exploitation.
If I make 1 million dollars, selling a counterfeit wii game, to people who are paying money, then exploitation may be in question.

^ is this correct logic ? Really though, we should find a fine line so we can defend this in the future.

[DrunkN]

I think it comes down to the word "exploit".

I disagree. I think that it all really boils down to whether or not intellectual property can still be treated as a "good".

[fungusman]

I disagree. I think that it all really boils down to whether or not intellectual property can still be treated as a "good".

Where is Socrates when you need him ?!

[Demon-Mask]

I draw the line at profiting off of someone else's intellectual property. That is when it becomes "exploitation".
I don't care about the end user downloading the game, we've all been there.
I don't care about the uploader who makes nothing uploading the game for millions to download.
I do care about the uploader who makes a financial gain off of someone's intellectual property.
Basically, it's what fungusman said.

[DrunkN]

I do care about the uploader who makes a financial gain off of someone's intellectual property.
But I think that intellectual property is made more difficult to draw a line on when actual pirate sites accumulate funding through ads and investment.

There's also the industrial witchening of piracy on the grounds that media companies lose money either way, which I think is more important as it slowly draws fear of gradual business crash in the future. Realistic to expect or not, mass economic change is a scary idea for a government that's trying to stabilize, and the U.S. is moving a lot of money through it's media.

At some point in the history of the next thousand years, I predict that few people developed countries will pay a dime just for "entertainment".

Or maybe this is all 12:45 AM musing, but It's been on my mind.

[Slime Slayer]

I might be in the minority, but I think if somebody takes time and effort to make something with the intention of it drawing revenue, then it is wrong to enjoy it without paying. Obviously stuff that is no longer commercially available is exempt from this, R.U. for example.

What my opinion boils down to is that if I busted my ass to create something, I would not want to see it being spread all over the world for free after a few clicks of someone's mouse. I don't really feel bad for the huge companies that are basicaly exempt from bankruptcy because they are "too big too fail", but the smaller companies, small game companies in particular, need to have every dollar that they deserve.

[Demon-Mask]

What if it is not and never will be commercially available in my country?

[Slime Slayer]

What if it is not and never will be commercially available in my country?
Then you import it.

[fungusman]

http://torrentfreak.com/what-piracy-the-entertainment-industry-is-booming-120130/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I just don't think it hurts the industry at all. It's like advertising. The money will be made somewhere.

[Kong]

Quote from fungusman's link
We hope that this report will help shift the debate away from a focus on a narrow set of interests who have yet to take advantage of the new opportunities, and towards a more positive recognition of the wide-open possibilities presented by new technologies to create, promote, distribute, connect and monetize. We’re living in a truly amazing time for the entertainment industry, and it’s time that our national debate reflects that reality.

They made the exact same arguments against beta and vhs tapes. After they stopped whining they ended up making more money than before. Whining will not stop p2p. They just have to be more innovative than the pirates. They should look at it as an opportunity.

[Slime Slayer]

http://i.imgur.com/eKIE2.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/cilLg.jpg

[Demon-Mask]

Then you import it.

Then why don't you just buy old consoles and games off of Ebay rather than playing them here? It's a matter of convenience and economic feasibility. I cannot afford to pay twice what a game should cost and I'd rather not wait for twice as long as it should take for a game to arrive. Maybe they should sell these games that will never receive a localization at some store in my general area. I'd be willing to pay the extra price if I could buy it at a local store rather than having it shipped to my house from overseas, and if I could use cash, instead of using a credit card or paypal. Whatever, that's just an idle fantasy, something that isn't going to happen.

[Slime Slayer]

Then why don't you just buy old consoles and games off of Ebay rather than playing them here? It's a matter of convenience and economic feasibility. I cannot afford to pay twice what a game should cost and I'd rather not wait for twice as long as it should take for a game to arrive. Maybe they should sell these games that will never receive a localization at some store in my general area. I'd be willing to pay the extra price if I could buy it at a local store rather than having it shipped to my house from overseas, and if I could use cash, instead of using a credit card or paypal. Whatever, that's just an idle fantasy, something that isn't going to happen.
Because that money is'nt going to go to the respective companies obviously.

[Demon-Mask]

I saw that coming, actually. I knew that was the answer, that's the reason we haven't been shut down already.

If I import a game from overseas, I am promoting the whole "let's not release all of these awesome games in America" attitude that companies have. It's not even a localization thing, I, and many others, could deal with non-localized games, or games that only have menu translations. There's also the whole region locking issue, which would mean I'd have to buy consoles multiple times.

[Slime Slayer]

If I import a game from overseas, I am promoting the whole "let's not release all of these awesome games in America"
I'm pretty sure that importing games would improve the chance of future releases, not hinder it.

So it's seems to me that your attitude is that you feel entitled to pirating games because you can't afford to buy them legit... is this basically what you are saying in a nutshell?

[Kong]

EA said used sales through gamestop and ebay etc. hurt them more than piracy.

[warghoul]

I don't see how used game sales hurt there business at all. Most people who are going to buy a used sports game can't aford to buy the new version anyway.

[Slime Slayer]

I don't see how pirated games hurt there business at all. Most people who are going pirate a sports game can't afford to buy the new version anyway.
Point being that I think they may use the used games excuse because it seems like a more realistic goal to challenge (activation codes, origin,drm). I'd be very suprised if they actually took the time and effort to aquire accurate numbers regarding the second hand vs. piracy issue, in fact, I'd say accurate information is'nt even available, there are way to many variables.

[Dudebro]

Obviously some people would buy a retail copy if there was no other option. I think most people won't though, or they'll at least wait for it to go on sale which hurts sales too. Used/rentals may hurt their profits but it's not nearly as bad as they claim. It's the same claim the movie industry makes about pirated movies. Most of those people wouldn't waste their money going to theaters or buying it from a store for full price either.

One of the worst trends I've seen recently is gamers who proudly brag that they buy all their games brand new to support the industry. Even when they agree a game is lacking they still see no problem with it. If people support crap more crap will be made. Something needs to change and it's on the developers end not ours. No amount of increased profits will make them try harder to make quality games.

Now they make it so even if you borrow a game you don't get the full experience. It's a calculated effort to take away all our options. They're causing the increase in piracy.

[Slime Slayer]

One of the worst trends I've seen recently is gamers who proudly brag that they buy all their games brand new to support the industry. Even when they agree a game is lacking they still see no problem with it. If people support crap more crap will be made.
Well you basically described me, I don't brag but I buy, in part, to support the industry. Can you give me a better idea of what you mean, or are you talking about people like me?

(I purposely avoided talking about specific games because I don't want start another war, we've need a small break from that...)

[Dudebro]

Even when they agree a game is lacking they still see no problem with it.This is the important part of what I said. Stuff like a new COD/Madden game even though it's barely any different from the last. They see no problem paying full retail price for it and encouraging more.

[Demon-Mask]

So it's seems to me that your attitude is that you feel entitled to pirating games because you can't afford to buy them legit... is this basically what you are saying in a nutshell?
I don't feel entitled to it, I even feel kind of bad about it at times, I just do it anyway. It's kind of hard to explain, I guess it's that I am not a potential customer so long as importing is the only option of buying legit. My major problem with importing is region locking, I don't want to have to buy a second console just to play games from another country. If I could buy these games at a physical location with cash, I'd not see any reason to pirate anything.
I don't really care what you think about my actions in this regard, I'll continue doing it anyway.

[Slime Slayer]

I don't feel entitled to it, I even feel kind of bad about it at times, I just do it anyway. It's kind of hard to explain, I guess it's that I am not a potential customer so long as importing is the only option of buying legit. My major problem with importing is region locking, I don't want to have to buy a second console just to play games from another country. If I could buy these games at a physical location with cash, I'd not see any reason to pirate anything.
I don't really care what you think about my actions in this regard, I'll continue doing it anyway.
It's not just just because I feel bad about stealing, in fact that is entirely secondary.

The main reason I don't pirate anymore is that it was ruining gaming for me. I was taking all the hard work put into the games for granted, I would download a dozen DS/wii games and I would'nt appreciate them, because in the back of my head I knew that there were many more after a few clicks of the mouse. I ended up going through about 50 DS games and only playing each one for a half hour or so, really great games too, games that deserved more of my attention.

Since I've stopped pirating, games are much more enjoyable. I spend my hard earned money on a game or 2 a month, and I play the bejezzus out of them, and I prefer it that way.

You can do whatever you want though, I'm not trying to change anyones mind on the subject.

---------- Post added at 06:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------

And you know I just realized? the only DQ game that I did'nt really enjoy that much was DQ 6, and I betcha it's because I pirated it.

[fungusman]

Oh no, they shut down Megaupload, what ever will pirates do? It's not like there are other services to do the same thing or anything like that.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Tdkc60cassette.jpg

[Slime Slayer]

btjunkie 2005 -> 2012 (http://btjunkie.org/goodbye.html?do=upload)

[fungusman]

They gonna shut down the library next ? It's hurting books sales man.

[KATZ]

the kindle and the nook are already killing the library so that doesnt even matter XD

[Demon-Mask]

It's not just just because I feel bad about stealing, in fact that is entirely secondary.

The main reason I don't pirate anymore is that it was ruining gaming for me. I was taking all the hard work put into the games for granted, I would download a dozen DS/wii games and I would'nt appreciate them, because in the back of my head I knew that there were many more after a few clicks of the mouse. I ended up going through about 50 DS games and only playing each one for a half hour or so, really great games too, games that deserved more of my attention.

Since I've stopped pirating, games are much more enjoyable. I spend my hard earned money on a game or 2 a month, and I play the bejezzus out of them, and I prefer it that way.

You can do whatever you want though, I'm not trying to change anyones mind on the subject.

That makes sense. That's why I only pirate as a last resort, with PSP games that don't receive NA releases.
I enjoy PS2 games much more, and I think it may be because I buy them, same with DS games.
It does feel kinda nice to play a game you spent all of your money on.