Robots develop language

[Dudebro]

BBC News - Robots develop language to 'talk' to each other (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13510988)

Robots are developing their own language to help them navigate and improve their intellectual ability.The lexicon has proved so sophisticated that it can be used to help robots find places other robots direct them to.
The machines are being allowed to generate their own words because human language is so loaded with information that robots found it hard to understand
The wheeled robots travel about and, when they reach a place that does not have a name, they generate a random combination of syllables that represent that place."They enable the robots to refer to places they haven't been or even places that they imagine beyond the edges of their explored world," she said.
I think this is a huge breakthrough for robotics. The human language is so needlessly complex and hard to master for humans, it's much worse for a machine and makes them seem stupid or messed up when trying to use it. Now they don't need our garbled language, we can just learn theirs.;)

And yes I realize this will bring up the lame jokes about Skynet becoming aware and all that but who knows, this could be the first step on the long road for a true AI. Scary and fascinating at the same time.

Another example that comes up is the Geth from Mass Effect. They were made as laborers but over time they became aware-
Eventually, they started asking the Quarians questions only sentient beings would think to ask, like "Am I alive?" or "Does this unit have a soul?"Out of fear they tried to pull the plug and it started a war for survival, which they lost. Kinda like Battlestar Galactica if I remember right.


So what do you guys think?

[DrunkN]

A robot wouldn't go about asking or wondering whether or not it had a soul unless it was learning to appeal to human emotions, or unless it was straight-up programmed to do so.

I think it's neat, but I have to wonder how the robots would write out such words Do they use phonetic letters or do they draw small pictogram to represent syllables?

[Dudebro]

I disagree. If a sophisticated AI was given enough time and power it would eventually come to question it's existence. The soul part was from ME specifically so that isn't anything based in reality but it makes sense that a sufficiently advanced AI would mimic it's creators. The Geth in ME have their own religion, in a sense, they see the Quarians as the creators and they leave their dead planets as a kind of cemetery.


Did you click the link? They give examples of words they made, "kuzo", "jaro" and "fexo".
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52919000/gif/_52919205_lingodroidmaps,ruthschulz.gif
Seems like they have a database of our letters and syllables but they are freed from the moronic traditions we suffer from that keep our languages so complex and different. This is pretty much raw language creation.

[DrunkN]

I disagree. If a sophisticated AI was given enough time and power it would eventually come to question it's existence.
A computer that is built to learn about everything in general might do that, but I seriously doubt that communication scripts would lead to that.

I have a hard time seeing
"Find purpose of self-existance."
come about, considering that it probably knows what it was built for, especially when most of it's other thoughts will be
"Define zone '00134832', forward 'Definition of zone: 00134832' to other units."

That's not literally how it would work, but you get the idea.

[Dudebro]

I think you're thinking too small. At our current level of technology it doesn't seem realistic but as things progress the boundaries will be pushed and sentience will certainly be one of those being pushed to it's breaking point, as this early project hints at.

Btw it's not a matter of it wondering what it was designed for. I see it more like demonstrating abstract thought. Then the "why" has more meaning. Why do I exist? Why am I smart enough to question why I exist? If I am smart enough to ask, then why am I not alive? And so on.

[jim5cents]

They should probably stick to binary code.

[DrunkN]

They should probably stick to binary code.
I think that they're trying to go with something that's appealing for human use.

[jim5cents]

You see...this is just a plot by the RoboBankers and the NRWO to make you think that they are going to open meaningful, peaceful dialogue between robots and humans.

All joking aside, I've never understood the purpose of creating A.I. Ultimately, robots and machines are designed to be our tools, toys, and slaves. Hammers aren't designed to decide which nail gets hammered, it is designed to hammer the nail that the operator chooses. Why do we want robots to be "friends"? If there is potential for them to be friends, then the potential exists for them to be our enemies.

I'm sure it is some instinct that is born from having the made in God's image thing drilled into our heads. So egomaniacs came up with an idea of making something in our image. Silly.

[Dudebro]

@Jim- a smarter tool works better. If you have a machine that can reason and understand like a human then you can do so much more with them. You could send them into hazardous areas to rescue people or send them to war instead of our people.

[jim5cents]

I will agree that a smarter tool works more efficently...right until it decides that it doesn't want to work anymore. If you have a machine that can reason and understand like a human, then at what point does the machine learn that going into a hazardous area or to war is dangerous for the machine and decides it doesn't want to do that and says "No". At that point, you have a worthless machine that thinks it is worth something. We already have plenty of humans that are like that.

I'm on board with the concept of developing faster processors to make work faster and more energy efficient. I am not on board with the idea of constructing a computer program to the point where it can decide if it is or isn't a computer program anymore, actually, to the point where it asks the questions is entirely too far.

[Dudebro]

That's the point Jim. When does it become too much? Can we make smart machines and control their sentience or will they surpass us and run amok? That's why I talked about the sci fi stories that deal with this sort of thing. It's fiction but it's a scary possible future.

In that example from Mass Effect the machines only rose up because their masters panicked and tried to shut them down. They saw it as a death sentence and they were just trying to survive. Now they keep to themselves and watch the organic races from afar. Without spoiling too much of the game it seems like they actually want to make peace and coexist. But their creators want them destroyed, probably how humans would react.

[jim5cents]

Gotcha, thought you were all about AI and how awesome it was

[Dudebro]

Well to be honest I kinda am. I can't help but feel like I'd really love to meet a AI that could carry on a conversation with me. I think we could handle it well enough to avoid a possible Terminator scenario. I envision our robots will end up more like the child like Data and the question of "why" would go more like this-
YouTube - ‪Star Trek - Data asks his creator a question‬‏

[RU Joe]

So, Lore would come strolling in?

ON TOPIC:

I think that it's probably a good idea to get the machines to create their own language since it would come 'naturally' to them; binary and machine language are man - made creations and suffer the limitations of their creators.

What I'm saying is that maybe the machines will discover things about technology we ourselves don't understand, and they may also be able to help us develop things like the Quantum Computer which currently exists but whose internal workings are mysterious to us.
Even the unit's development team doesn't know exactly how it works, it just does.
Maybe these machines could explain it to us.

[Dudebro]

So, Lore would come strolling in?I'm glad you said that. I thought it was actually a good analogy to this subject. Data asking his creator why he exists what we'd hope for but Lore coming in at the end with bad intentions is what we fear, a machine that is smart enough to realize why and not care.

Got a link to that PC thing? Sounds fishy that it's creators wouldn't understand it. What did it come to them after falling off the toilet and hitting their heads like with the flux capacitor?

[RU Joe]

+1.
You have a great sense of humor.

What I meant was that even though they created the thing, the quantum aspect of the core is a bit of a mystery.
This has to do with those pictures of one atom in two places at the exact same time; stuff that's hard for us Humans to comprehend yet still exists and is mathematically provable, like other dimensions.

Sorry I can't remember the name of the documentary I got this info from but here's a dumbed - down explanation for TV:

YouTube - ‪CNN - Quantum Computers‬‏

[Dudebro]

Are you sure they actually built something or do you just mean the quantum particles being investigated as a use for computing? I admit it's way over my head but it doesn't seem like it's a reality, yet.

[RU Joe]

Totally S.T.N.G. if you ask me.
Quantum computer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and apparently they're selling them.
Hey Kong!
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html

[Dudebro]

Yeah I don't get it. But it sounds like the next big thing we'll all be buying in a few years.

[Kong]

But it sounds like the next big thing we'll all be buying in a few years.I doubt it.

1. It will be hugely expensive - I wouldn't be too shocked if the one Lockheed Martin bought is close to a million dollars.
2. It is enormous. The first one is protected by 10 square meters of dense walls.
3. It won't do much for you. It won't play games or run photoshop any faster or better than your computer.

All it does is compute very large problems very well. Such as finding a cure for cancer, searching for alien life, breaking passwords etc.

Or in the case of Lockheed Martin they will probably use it to design some ultimate weapon or create a Orwellian Big Brother of some sort.

Wikileaks says they have "the digital age equivalent of a thermonuclear device", a file that contains extremely damaging state secrets. They released the file but it was encrypted it in a way that no modern computer could ever crack. They say if something happens to Julian or Wikileaks that they will release the password. If the password is not released then a modern computer would never be able to open the file.

The type of thing that a quantum computer can do that modern computers can not is crack the password to that file.

Most likely the laptop the navy got from Osama is encrypted in a similar way. Without a quantum computer they will not be able to read his files.

Anyways, I bet we cure cancer and know what is in the wikileaks file well before you can buy one at Best Buy. I think it will happen, just not very soon.

[Dudebro]

Why do you think Osama had access to something able to encrypt files on that kind of scale? Are you saying they have access to a quantum computer or that it's possible to encrypt stuff in that way without it?

Btw Kong no comment on the topic itself? I figured you of all people would find it interesting at least.

[Kugyince]

Are you saying they have access to a quantum computer or that it's possible to encrypt stuff in that way without it?

Yep.

[Kong]

Modern computers can easily create the encryption. Breaking it without a password is the hard part.

One of the things quantum computers will be best at is breaking security, I don't feel too comfortable with Lockheed Martin having that kind of power - especially all by themselves.

no comment on the topic itselfFrom reading the article it doesn't seem they are getting too far away from the English language. They just let them make up their own nouns but it is still English.

[Dudebro]

I thought I heard that the wikileaks encrypted info was already being worked on and within a few years it'll probably be broken(by a government I think someone said). Are you saying it's impossible to crack or that it would just take a ridiculously long time?


Those robots are using English but that's because their creators speak it. Makes sense to me. But they're only using basic english to form their own words, that's what fascinates me.

[RU Joe]

Kong:

They just let them make up their own nouns but it is still English.

Technobabble!


the laptop the navy got from Osama

Let me pretend that I believe in the official story for a minute, just to demonstrate a point.
Please bear in mind that I am only pretending to believe the official 9/11 Commission Report:

There is no possible way to ever crack the security on this laptop since Osama and his cohorts {guys that hide in caves - virtual cavemen, according to the official narrative} obviously had access to technology far more advanced than we in the general public are aware of.

These guys have passports that can survive explosions large enough to pulverize gigantic 100 story, steel cored {47 massive inner columns in each tower tapering from 4" thick at their base, welded and riveted together} concrete buildings with a steel outer mesh to a pile of dust.
A huge fireball engulfed not only the planes that hit the towers, but also the office furniture, computers, and the entire contents of the building - then the explosions that pulverized the towers on top of it, and these guys' passports just came floating down almost unscathed.
What are those passports made of? - imagine the Military applications of such a substance.
You could make body armor that would repel tank rounds!

Osama developed the most dense and indestructable substance ever known - and made his minions' passports out of it.

Also, regarding the strikes on the Pentagon and also Flight 93, they must be in possession of some kind of transporter device or perhaps nanotechnology capable of making entire planes, luggage, and passengers' bodies completely dissapear.
This is extremely frightening and I wonder why Osama just didn't mount this device on the front of that tank with the 'passport' material as armor - he could have been completely invincible and been able to make objects at least as large as a 757 just dissapear into thin air!

Osama had a transdimensional gateway or perhaps nanotech molecular disassembly robots.

They also had mind control technology that tricked that poor BBC reporter lady into thinking the Salomon Bros. building - WTC building 7 - had already collapsed when you could still see it clearly in the background behind her during that live BBC broadcast!
How else could you explain her reporting the building having fallen when clearly it did not?

Osama had the power to control minds.

But wait, there's more!
He also used his mind control device to trick those F.B.I. agents that visited him while he was suffering his kidney problems in Dubai - and obviously his technology made it possible to survive despite the fact other people die within 6 years of contracting the same affliction.

Osama had life extension technology.

Going with the official 9/11 Commission Report and the Pentagons' own press releases, Osama was a truly amazing person who created some of the most advanced technology the World has ever seen.
Quantum Computers were nothing compared with his great achievements.

[Dudebro]

Please bear in mind that I am only pretending to believe the official 9/11 Commission Report:Don't worry JG I'm sure no one would've been confused. We know by now that you cannot trust any official story on anything.

Btw about Osama being so advanced, I have a theory-
UPDATE: Giant Bin Laden Destroys New York, Washington | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/update-giant-bin-laden-destroys-new-york-washingto,20536/)
http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/20536/Enraged_500-Foot_JUMP_R_large_1.jpg

But really JG you're exaggerating about OBL. He may have hide in caves and lived in one of the poorest regions in the world but he was also the son of a insanely rich Saudi oil baron and he had connects up the wazoo. He had plenty of access to technology.

[RU Joe]

DB:
But really JG you're exaggerating about OBL. He may have hide in caves and lived in one of the poorest regions in the world but he was also the son of a insanely rich Saudi oil baron and he had connects up the wazoo. He had plenty of access to technology.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but look at what I said compared to what we're supposed to believe {or else you're with Al Queda and Napolitano's Gestappo will come to get you} compared to historical and scientific fact.
I'm not kidding when I say that the story is difficult to believe unless some sort of advanced technology or perhaps magic was involved!

Oh boy, I shouldn't say that or else someone's going to post that pic of 'Satan's face' in the fireball and start preaching about how it was actually Satan himself who leveled the WTC complex.

Just look at the facts, and compare them to historical examples.
I didn't mean to derail the thread so badly but these false stories about OBL and 9/11, 7/7 and the rest of it must fall or we really will be living in 1984.
Like I said, look at the facts.
Check out all the Police beating up the French and Spanish {peaceful} protesters on youtube compared with what the smiling liars on TV are saying about it - their lies cannot hide the truth forever.

[Kong]

Are you saying it's impossible to crack or that it would just take a ridiculously long time?The only currently known way to break it is brute force, trying every possibility one at a time. Using a computer faster than the fastest computer ever made that can process 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 passwords per second it would still take over 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000 years to try every possibility. In theory you could get lucky and one of the first passwords you try is right, but statistically that is very unlikely.

A quantum computer would still take a very long time but the time required at least starts to get plausible.

[Dudebro]

This topic is going way off the rails now. We got one conversation that's way over my head, quantum computing, and one that's been done before, the NWO is out to get us. Why does no one wanna talk about robots talking? It's really cool I promise!

[RU Joe]

This topic is going way off the rails now. We got one conversation that's way over my head, quantum computing, and one that's been done before, the NWO is out to get us.
I'm just providing my friendly neighborhood JG public service announcement.
It's still coming, DB, {check my ULTIMATE rant} and you know it isn't like I'm talking about the second coming of Jesus here - they brag about their plans in print and they mean business.

ON TOPIC:

Ok so here we are with technology that can understand each and every Human language, being applied in a sort of 'universal translator' like we saw in the 80's Sci - fi Battlestar Galactica.
{the Bilderberg Group's security uses it}

Give it to the machines and they automatically have an 'understanding' of how we Humans communicate in a way most of us probably couldn't imagine.
Combine it with their own language and I think the machines could become self aware through time.

Why?
Because in order to truly understand all languages also brings with it the insights and references to common sense/ horse sense that inspired the creation of most words in the first place; the meanings contained within the words could teach the machines.

[Dudebro]

Yeah I think this could lead to a better understanding of language and hopefully a long overdue overhaul of the entire thing.

[jim5cents]

Here is something I never understood.

In Star Wars, I get that C-3PO can understand what R2-D2 is saying, but how can people like Luke know what the heck that little trashcan is talking about when he is bleeping and blooping.

[Dudebro]

From what I remember Jedi have the ability to understand droids and other languages. I don't think it's restricted to Jedi but it seems like most of them can understand droids.

But it's a fantasy movie written by a giant douche so anything goes really.

[Kong]

There are people that learn morse code so well that they can communicate quickly via bleeps and bloops.

But yeah, I get your point, in the movie it seems strange.