Grandia - PS1

[Tails]

Who here has played it? Like I said I got it via PSN just cuz it looked interesting. I love it, it reminds me of the mechanics of Chrono Trigger with new elements, and it's not based on time.

I'll post more tomorrow when I get off from work, bed time.

[Demon-Mask]

Same basic mechanics as Chrono Trigger, that must be cool.
A good portion of the staff of Grandia previously worked on the Lunar series.

[Tails]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Eil_ie/suepuibq8.jpg

Sue is pretty cool, but really weak, I found that out when I got Feena in my party. Love her "rah-rah" cheer, heals.

[CatalystiCam]

this was on PS1?! lame, it was a saturn exclusive that way outdid all the PS1 RPGs from what I remember... Oh, well. No I haven't tried it but might for saturn.

[Tails]

Yes, it came after the Saturn version, and it got better art, even if DB disagrees.

[Dudebro]

lame, it was a saturn exclusive that way outdid all the PS1 RPGs from what I remember
Sure it did, got a link to anything to back that up or is this more of your Saturn fanboyisms? Also why is it lame to port it from a dead system to one that was still active? You think it would be better to let it rot in the past because it was exclusive to a failed system? Really?

even if DB disagrees.
Well yeah, you post a character pic and it's some 5 year old girl cheering with her dress up in the air, I definitely disagree.

[Tails]

DB I read somewhere it was Saturn first, then released on the PS1, so Cam's kinda right.

Actually 8. ;D

I like Feena more though.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6053/258058-grandia_feena_large.jpg - Feena (PS1 art)

http://membres.multimania.fr/feena/rpg/grandia/art/chara/feena.jpg - Feena (Saturn art)

[Dudebro]

DB I read somewhere it was Saturn first, then released on the PS1, so Cam's kinda right.
I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about how it supposedly "way outdid" all the PS1 rpgs. I think he's remembering it wrong. This game was considered one of the best Saturn games but not one of the best overall.
I dunno, something about how he said it bothered me.

[Kugyince]

PS1 was an amazing system for RPG fans. I would say it comes close to if not equals the SNES as having the best RPG library.

[fogelmir]

I really enjoyed the ps1 Grandia, I played it several years ago. I like the extreme amount of detail in the graphics, and the, "go where the wind takes us," type of story line. It is one of those great games with really cinematic magic spells. I ended up powering up my characters so much that I was able to beat the final boss, with the final boss never getting to attack at all. my crowning achievement.

[TrakMastaTom]

Love Grandia. Grandia 2 was even better.

[Demon-Mask]

As far as the artwork goes, I think the Saturn version wins. Anime style before it lost it's soul.

[Slime Slayer]

As far as the artwork goes, I think the Saturn version wins. Anime style before it lost it's soul.
For some strange reason I know exactly what you mean, even though I can't explain it.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

I guess it was a time where anime wasn't being jammed down our throats.

We'll call it b.t. for before tails.

[TrakMastaTom]

I think the PS1 art is wayyyyy better.

[CatalystiCam]

Saturn - 1997
Ps1 - 1999

it was an exclusive. I was surprised to hear it is on ps1 since this is the first I've heard. yes, it's well known I like saturn better than PS1, matter of personal preference that I enjoy the saturn much more. Most of japan liked the saturn much more. Don't see the issue and I don't feel I need to explain why every time. so back to topic.... :-/

PS1 is full of anime? I'm going to get my hands on the saturn version for sure now.

[Demon-Mask]

I guess it was a time where anime wasn't being jammed down our throats.

We'll call it b.t. for before tails.

I think it is more because each artist's style was more of their own, not everyone using a very similar style. That and the art had to be hand-drawn more often than not, and it showed. Now a good portion of artists do the majority of their work by computer, meaning they are somewhat more limited in what they can do.

That and it really wasn't being forced down our throats as well.


PS1 is full of anime? I'm going to get my hands on the saturn version for sure now.
Both use anime art styles for the concept art and cover art and whatever.

[Slime Slayer]

How is a digital approach more limiting?

[Demon-Mask]

Fully digital means you have to rely on your mouse/tablet and your image-editor or whatever to register everything properly and have the color pallet you want.

I get a digital approach to coloring and touch-up, but doing the initial line-art digitally is more limited and takes less work to do as a whole.

[Slime Slayer]

Okay well your wrong, the digital approach does anything you can do traditionally in about a tenth of the time.

[Dudebro]

it was an exclusive.Until they released it on PS1. Again I don't understand why you'd be against a game getting more life rather than rot in obscurity but w.e it's your life.

Don't see the issue and I don't feel I need to explain why every time. You don't need to explain it but if you continue to act like it's superior to other systems I'm gonna continue to call you on it because it's just not true.

[DrunkN]

Until they released it on PS1. Again I don't understand why you'd be against a game getting more life rather than rot in obscurity but w.e it's your life.
It's not as big a deal to him as you're making it seem. (I think)

I do like the Saturn art much better. It does seem much more unique.

[Dudebro]

I don't really care how he feels about it, I just don't like the tone of that post. I only commented because it came across as fanboy BS.

[DrunkN]

I don't really care how he feels about it, I just don't like the tone of that post. I only commented because it came across as fanboy BS.
Ah, I see.

Carry on.

[Slime Slayer]

Is there really anything wrong with fanboyism? I'm proud of my status.

---------- Post added at 04:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 AM ----------

No different than having a favorite sports team, really.

[Dudebro]

Yeah there's something wrong with it. A fanboy is blinded by his obsession. A fan likes/loves the obsession but he can see the faults and be honest about it. Which one are you?

[Tails]

Like DB is to 360? :p

[Dudebro]

No, the 360 is actually a good system but I admit it has faults.

[Tails]

I was expecting an essay reply, I was joking anyways.

Tbh I've been interested in the 360's arcade, but I won't get it cuz i got too many systems.

[StarfoxFan2009]

one can never have too many consoles Tails

[Dudebro]

I've played a few good games from the arcade and I know it's pretty popular but yeah it's probably not worth buying the system for. The cheapest 360 is like 150 and it has no HD to store the games.

@SFF- not true. What if the only games you like are available cross platform? Buying two systems to play the same games isn't worth it.

[Tails]

Rather get that Megaman stuff for my collection than a system.

[StarfoxFan2009]

In that scenario, it would be pointless dudebro. However, if one system has a game i like that the others can't get, i buy the system.

On topic: Grandia was ok on the PS1 but i couldn't get into it.

[Demon-Mask]

Okay well your wrong, the digital approach does anything you can do traditionally in about a tenth of the time.

Exactly, you can have the computer do some of the heavy lifting. I think line art should be done by hand, the line art is where the artist's skill comes through, and if you have to use a computer to be able to successfully create the line art, then you are missing some skills. With pen and paper, the line is down and it is down, you can't modify it, you can't use a library of already made shapes to make sure it is perfect, you can't keep part of it and eliminate another.

So with a digital approach to line art you are not doing work that takes the same degree of skill. I understand doing things like coloring and "clean-up" type work digitally, as that is not where the artist's skill is most apparent.

Is there really anything wrong with fanboyism? I'm proud of my status.


To an extent, fanboyism is fine. If it completely blinds you to facts it is too far. If it makes you think a game is an exclusive just because it wasn't released on another system until later, or if it convinces you that one version is better than the other, when you've only played one version {or non at all}, then it is too far.

It would be the same thing as if I were to completely deny the fact that there are good games that don't have the name "Metal Gear" in the title, or if I were to deny that some games bearing the title "Metal Gear" aren't all that great.

[Tails]

So, I'm at the End of the World, gonna play more now.

[Demon-Mask]

if one system has a game i like that the others can't get, i buy the system.

I would totally do that if I had the money, except the fact that some games I want to play turn out to suck and I only play them for a few hours. That and I don't think buying a console just to play a specific game is logical for the way I do things.

Let's pretend:
{oh, and I get the whip this time around}
I spend $250.00 on a PS3, I then spend $60.00 on MGS4, I have just spent $310.00, now I find out MGS4 sucks and so that was $60.00 I just spent for nothing, I also don't want anything else on the PS3, that is $310.00 I could have put towards a new computer, or $310.00 I could have spent on used games for consoles I already have. Hell, for $310.00 I could have gotten twenty PS2 games I know I want {and have already played some and I know they are fun} or I could have instead bought around eight or nine new DS games, {all of which are games that I have much more interest in}

That and the games released on the current-gen home consoles have yet to get me so excited I'd actually buy any of the consoles.

[Tails]

You reminded me to get Megaman 10 on PSN, thanks.

[Slime Slayer]

Exactly, you can have the computer do some of the heavy lifting. I think line art should be done by hand, the line art is where the artist's skill comes through, and if you have to use a computer to be able to successfully create the line art, then you are missing some skills. With pen and paper, the line is down and it is down, you can't modify it, you can't use a library of already made shapes to make sure it is perfect, you can't keep part of it and eliminate another.

So with a digital approach to line art you are not doing work that takes the same degree of skill. I understand doing things like coloring and "clean-up" type work digitally, as that is not where the artist's skill is most apparent.


A computer is an art tool, just like a pen, pencil, airbrush... whatever. If I person does not have the ability to draw something convincing on paper, than that person will not be able to draw something that is convincing digitally.
Your acting as if the computer chooses pose, angles, rhythm, shape, form, mass, negative shapes, silhoutte, perspective, layout, composition, anatomy, structure, shadows, mood, contrast, ect.
These are all things a person needs in their skill set to create a great drawing, it doesn't matter if your using a pen on paper, a stylus on a tablet, or rubbing turd against the bathroom wall.

---------- Post added at 08:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------

And for the record, I do all my line art on paper, because I can't do it as well on a computer, that's slowly changing though.

[Demon-Mask]

It doesn't choose, but you have the ability to use the computer to make massive changes to the art, and still claim you did it all yourself.

[Slime Slayer]

It doesn't choose, but you have the ability to use the computer to make massive changes to the art, and still claim you did it all yourself.

And this results in crappier art how?

[Demon-Mask]

The art may actually look better than what the artist could do themselves, that is the problem. It's like beating a game on easy mode using guides online, you still did it, but heavily assisted and simplified to death.

[Slime Slayer]

The art may actually look better than what the artist could do themselves, that is the problem. It's like beating a game on easy mode using guides online, you still did it, but heavily assisted and simplified to death.

Okay, so that guy who does the beautiful airbrush art work, should I criticize him because he can't get those results with oils? Should I tell him he stinks because he relies on the airbrush to do all the work for him?

[Demon-Mask]

No, in that case no. If it something that is impossible to reproduce with a physical medium then it's fine, but if it is just sketching or using the computer to give the appearance of artistic ability, then relying entirely on the computer is not really okay.

If I make a painting with paint, then it is the same as someone using a computer to make a painting that just gives the appearance of it actually being painted? Them using a complex color pallet is the same as me using a few basic colors and mixing them to produce the same amount of colors? Them using the erase tool to fix mistakes is the same as me having to cover them up with paint? Them using the stylus on a tablet is the same as me using a paintbrush on canvas?

[Slime Slayer]

just sketching or using the computer to give the appearance of artistic ability

Post me an example of this.

[Demon-Mask]

What do you mean by that, a picture of it or what?

http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/tutorials/kiss/img5.jpg
Here is someone using a digital painting program, notice all the tools they can use to make the work easier on them, but still give the appearance of the skill it takes to actually paint on paper, notice how you can instantly have colors that have to be mixed in reality, notice how you can go back and manipulate a previous layer, notice how you can switch between airbrush and whatnot. You see, things that would be a challenge for a skilled artist with paint, can be done with a simple click here and there. Realize that, by allowing the manipulation of previous layer, the need to be able to work around mistakes {or skillfully mask them} has been completely undone. You can just go back to a previous layer and use the "erase" tool. You can also add effects, to what you have, to make it look different.

So you're saying it takes the same level of artistic talent to produce the same thing when you have all these tools to simplify it, at your disposal?

[Slime Slayer]

Originally Posted by Demon-Mask http://retrouprising.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://retrouprising.com/video-games/all-other-games/grandia-ps1/t10068/p2/#post137197)
just sketching or using the computer to give the appearance of artistic ability
Post me an example of this.

---------- Post added at 07:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 AM ----------



http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/tutorials/kiss/img5.jpg


So you post a picture of abstract art...... riiiiiighttt.

[Tails]

:(

[Demon-Mask]

So you post a picture of abstract art...... riiiiiighttt.
Abstract art is still art, and thus still requires some degree of talent. If it takes some degree of talent, a computer can still give the appearance of talent. The point was to show all the different functions a program can do, and how they can make it much easier to create art.

[Slime Slayer]

You don't need to try and explain your point to me, I understand exactly what your trying to say.
However you are not understanding my point, and I will try to summarize it simply:

A computer is not a substitute for talent, you either have the skills or you don't. Somebody who sucks at drawing will not be able to create something digitally with any sort of believability.
To quote myself from earlier: "pose, angles, rhythm, shape, form, mass, negative shapes, silhoutte, perspective, layout, composition, anatomy, structure, shadows, mood, contrast,"
This is what makes an image successful, no computer will do that for you.
Yes a computer will save you time, but you need the traditional skills to make it work for you.

[Demon-Mask]

I get your point better now that you have summarized it, but my point is that it can be done with less skill with the aid of a computer, you can use shortcuts that make it simpler.

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Also: This argument seems to have reached a standstill, both you and I will simply rehash the same few arguments we had before, and neither of us will sway our opinion.

[CatalystiCam]

agh, screw my internet out here. Had a 4 paragraph post I don't feel like re-writing now. basically my tase is unorthadox, I don't deny the ps1s success, don't feel it deserved the success given the timing along with what they did with nintendo and the snes. Gen 5 was like night and day compared to us and europe vs japan. which is confusing and I don't despise the ps1 but if the choice is between a game on saturn vs ps1, yeah. I'll pick the saturn version most likely.

[Normdogg]

I just picked up the PS1 version a few months back. I'm about 2/3 done with Disc 1. It's good, I must say. I kinda got set back when I found the xbox version of Shenmue II (a game which I had never played at the time) for $8.00 over at a Games Xchange. I just beat it, so it's back to Grandia for me.

[Tails]

Nice, I'm at Gumbo, if it wasn't for the store manager catching me playing PSP I woulda beaten that too. :p

Love the Justin and Feena nods.

[Tails]

Now in a side quest, the Dreams mansion with Justin, Feena, Rapp, and Milda. Pretty hard, had a grind to get elemental special moves for heal and stuffz.

---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 AM ----------

Oh yeah..

Fave quote: Gadwin's secret move.. Dragon King Slice!